1964 bonneville rebuild

[Last Indian]

On 1/14/2021 at 11:54 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

I am also thinking of deleting the factory fan, and fitting a thermostatically controlled electric one on the back side of the radiator.

My reasoning is that the factory fan is not thermostatic, so its pulling power straight from cold start, it has no real shroud to make it way more efficient.

It will increase hp justA by removing it.

 What you guys think ??? 🙄

JustA my two cents worth! Electric fans are ok, but bigger HP, old skool motors which actually have a different design in both metallurgy and pattern flow of cooling jackets, can be tricky to keep cool with electrical fans and standard size radiators! 
A three or four row radiator with a shroud and incorporating a good GM clutch fan does the best job at cooling in my experience. In my “69” Z, which had 600 HP in ran a 4 row with the custom aluminum shroud and a GM clutch fan! The motor really could make some heat! But with a 180 thermostat it never failed to stay at 185 to 190!
 

[Last Indian]

On 1/19/2021 at 11:43 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Some good news today, the steering arm for the passenger side i sent to the engineers to be magnaflux for cracks came back and completely crack free.

They didn't shot peen it as they said it was not needed🙄,, justA want last Indians opinion on that!

Not getting it shot peened is probably ok since it checked out ok with no cracks! 
But if it had a crack in it I would advise you to replace it! Shot peening is the principal of folding metal, or hammering metal to compress it, which makes it denser! Which in turn makes the metal stronger! This is the principle behind anything cast vs forged! Ancient Samurai swords! The steel these were made from was folded into itself over and over again, using heat and a BFH! This makes the steel very dense, it cause the molecules to become very compressed! This make steel very strong and because of the dense molecular structure the sword holds a very sharp edge for much longer!

Edited January 23, 2021 by Last Indian

[JUSTA6]

52 minutes ago, Last Indian said:

JustA my two cents worth! Electric fans are ok, but bigger HP, old skool motors which actually have a different design in both metallurgy and pattern flow of cooling jackets, can be tricky to keep cool with electrical fans and standard size radiators! 
A three or four row radiator with a shroud and incorporating a good GM clutch fan does the best job at cooling in my experience. In my “69” Z, which had 600 HP in ran a 4 row with the custom aluminum shroud and a GM clutch fan! The motor really could make some heat! But with a 180 thermostat it never failed to stay at 185 to 190!
 

Pretty much exactly what I did with the GTO.  Water pump plate must be checked for cavitation as well.

[Last Indian]

13 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Pretty much exactly what I did with the GTO.  Water pump plate must be checked for cavitation as well.

Yup! For old skool motors it’s pretty hard to beat. 

Kiwi! I did forget to mention that these units are designed to run a seven or nine blade steel fan! They have a pitch in the blades that at low RPM, when active real pull some amazing air flow! These clutch units are thermostatically controlled! Meaning that only when air temps are high enough does the clutch engage! Otherwise the steel blade fan just sits in neutral, I.E. disengaged!

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Last Indian

[64 kiwi boni]

Thanks Last indian and JustA. i appreciate your wisdom 

i justA happen to have the thermostatic fan off my camaro, 

i swapped it for a plastic unit way back in 2003 when i rebuilt the motor and my drag racer mates convinced me that it was pulling horse power and i was best do go with a plastic one if i was pull lots of revs..... well i never really did ( rev much) yet the plastic one with the shroud has never over heated and that car has done countless parades, slow congested cruises etc.

The thermostatic unit has the correct bolt pattern and when i am done baby sitting the grand kids this afternoon i will front it too the 64, i am certainly looking at building a shroud, my only issue is that the Pontiac radiator has no frame, it mounts in 3 rubber brackets, so i am looking at mounting a shroud off the front radiator support member. I also need to check the clearances of the fan blades size🙄

Edited January 23, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[JUSTA6]

3 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Thanks Last indian and JustA. i appreciate your wisdom 

i justA happen to have the thermostatic fan off my camaro, 

i swapped it for a plastic unit way back in 2003 when i rebuilt the motor and my drag racer mates convinced me that it was pulling horse power and i was best do go with a plastic one if i was pull lots of revs..... well i never really did ( rev much) yet the plastic one with the shroud has never over heated and that car has done countless parades, slow congested cruises etc.

The thermostatic unit has the correct bolt pattern and when i am done baby sitting the grand kids this afternoon i will front it too the 64, i am certainly looking at building a shroud, my only issue is that the Pontiac radiator has no frame, it mounts in 3 rubber brackets, so i am looking at mounting a shroud off the front radiator support member. I also need to check the clearances of the fan blades size🙄

Thought it was JUSTA me N my Ol Skool ways.  Thankz for the backup LastIndian.  Obviously elect fans have come a long way, esp with FWD cars over the years and comes down to users choice for your pride N joy.  

[64 kiwi boni]

Fitted the thermostatic fan and its justa 3/4 inch smaller diameter than the stock one and looks to be a good spacing off where the radiator will sit.

 

i will wait till the radiator is back to work out the shroud configuration... might even make it out of brushed stainless steel for a clean look

Also fitted the new power steer hoses i had made this week and prepped the third inner fender

Edited January 24, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[JUSTA6]

Fab'ed my shroud and painted black to make it a LIL less noticeable that it wasn't stock.  Used the heavy roof flashing from a roofing/siding shop.  Already black or any number of colors you could want for the project.  Also bought enough to do the bottom of my hood, made my tunnel to drop over the carbs and used foam to channel the air to the carbs, cut out the fake blockers making the hood scoop functional and breathing cool air instead of the hot mess under hood before getting the heat problem solved. Your eye candy (motor)  will command the attention under hood and most don't even look at the fan shroud.

 

[Last Indian]

On 1/23/2021 at 4:03 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Thanks Last indian and JustA. i appreciate your wisdom 

i justA happen to have the thermostatic fan off my camaro, 

i swapped it for a plastic unit way back in 2003 when i rebuilt the motor and my drag racer mates convinced me that it was pulling horse power and i was best do go with a plastic one if i was pull lots of revs..... well i never really did ( rev much) yet the plastic one with the shroud has never over heated and that car has done countless parades, slow congested cruises etc.

The thermostatic unit has the correct bolt pattern and when i am done baby sitting the grand kids this afternoon i will front it too the 64, i am certainly looking at building a shroud, my only issue is that the Pontiac radiator has no frame, it mounts in 3 rubber brackets, so i am looking at mounting a shroud off the front radiator support member. I also need to check the clearances of the fan blades size🙄

It might just be the angle of the picture, but just for reference, as this picture appears, this would not be a desirable setup! The fan needs to sit at least just inside the leading edge of the shroud or a little deeper! Also there should be only about a 1/2 inch clearance between the shroud circumference and the tips of the blades. This is what make a good draw of air through the radiator.

[64 kiwi boni]

Yes good point mate ! 

This picture doesn’t really show much as far as location ,only that it’s back  far enough to get  the radiator in 👍

I need to wait till I get the radiator back and then I can mock up a full shroud template , the plate you can see above is justA the top support for the radiator and I guess it’s a bit of protection from the stock blade when your working on a running engine 

I have hunted around an to looks as though 64 bonneville never had a factory full shroud unlike there sister chevs that certainly did along with the gto s 

[Last Indian]

23 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Yes good point mate ! 

This picture doesn’t really show much as far as location ,only that it’s back  far enough to get  the radiator in 👍

I need to wait till I get the radiator back and then I can mock up a full shroud template , the plate you can see above is justA the top support for the radiator and I guess it’s a bit of protection from the stock blade when your working on a running engine 

I have hunted around an to looks as though 64 bonneville never had a factory full shroud unlike there sister chevs that certainly did along with the gto s 

Kiwi there was a shroud for the Bonneville, see pics, but I think you could make a better one. If you look close at the pictures of my Z radiator you’ll notice that it’s made of aluminum! The part that the fan would enter is rolled the rest is a flat sheet of aluminum cut and bent appropriately and then the aluminum ring is tig into it. This whole assembly attaches to the radiator itself! Even the radiator retention brackets are custom made for holding the radiator in place. I did the same basic concept for my wife’s Z.

[64 kiwi boni]

New Teflon brake hoses thanks to my brake shop mate, who is also making me a Teflon fuel line with a-n fittings from the pump up to the  carter 

these babys will not expand when those big brake drums get hot which will help with braking under heavy use 

dont they looks sexy  compared to the scummy old one!!!

Edited January 26, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

6 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Kiwi there was a shroud for the Bonneville, see pics, but I think you could make a better one. If you look close at the pictures of my Z radiator you’ll notice that it’s made of aluminum! The part that the fan would enter is rolled the rest is a flat sheet of aluminum cut and bent appropriately and then the aluminum ring is tig into it. This whole assembly attaches to the radiator itself! Even the radiator retention brackets are custom made for holding the radiator in place. I did the same basic concept for my wife’s Z.

 

Great pictures of your 69 Last Indian👍 thats what i will be doing with my shroud

here is a better picture of the stock 64 shroud... which really is not a shroud at all... its more like a shr___

 with out the rest of a the ___oud haha. i really dont think it did diddly squat ... watch this space👍

i think i can do much better 🙄

Edited January 26, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

9 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Kiwi there was a shroud for the Bonneville, see pics, but I think you could make a better one. If you look close at the pictures of my Z radiator you’ll notice that it’s made of aluminum! The part that the fan would enter is rolled the rest is a flat sheet of aluminum cut and bent appropriately and then the aluminum ring is tig into it. This whole assembly attaches to the radiator itself! Even the radiator retention brackets are custom made for holding the radiator in place. I did the same basic concept for my wife’s Z.

Now  here is a interesting thing Last Indian... that air cleaner you posted has a really big intake! my one is way smaller and i looked at it and thought.... how the hell is a 4 barrel going to breath through a inch and a half intake snout????, your pic shows a nearly 2 inch snout !!

and even that seams too small???

[Last Indian]

6 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Now  here is a interesting thing Last Indian... that air cleaner you posted has a really big intake! my one is way smaller and i looked at it and thought.... how the hell is a 4 barrel going to breath through a inch and a half intake snout????, your pic shows a nearly 2 inch snout !!

and even that seams too small???

There are all kinds of ways around that dilemma! If you what to keep it as a overall stock look, you add a little longer threaded screw to the carb and flip the top of the air cleaner upside down! Or you find and buy the same diameter air filter but a little taller add again a longer screw and raise the top up! You can also get a second top to your air cleaner and cut down the outside diameter which opens up a gap around the air filter! Or you can go aftermarket air cleaner that is opened all the way around! All of these maximize volumetric efficiency!

In each case you need to assure the the top cover seals to the air filter! So in the case of cutting the top cover outside diameter, you cut it back as far as you can while still leaving the sealing point of the air cleaner intact. Also always make sure you check the clearance between any changes you’ve made and the closing of the hood!!

[64 kiwi boni]

Hmm, good food for thought 👍

[64 kiwi boni]

Sunday here, we spent the day yesterday a  concert with cool kiwi bands , was fun to get out have a few beers and went out for a nice dinner afterwards.Today i managed to sand blast the hinges and top coat the two of them along with the two CORRECT inner fenders!! 

Edited January 31, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

Got into the drivers side fender and here you can see the pencil marks around a nice big dent and with the straight edge you can see there is a good 3mm gap, few careful adjustments with a block of wood and a flat hammer and i had it down to just under 1 mm.made up a brew of bog and used a big trowel to apply it over the whole area so i had a nice skim coat to sand and loose the imperfections. i am going to leave it to fully set over night and block it tomorrow, then go over the rest of the fender. This one is in really good condition so i will check it over, sand and prime it. Right now we have mates coming for a bbq, and beers. so thats it for today. i did get the intake detailed but i will show that tomorrow once i have all the new hoses fitted cheers guys 

Edited January 31, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

Note. didn't get anything done Sunday thanks to bbq and Bourbon

[Frosty]

15 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Note. didn't get anything done Sunday thanks to bbq and Bourbon

That's not considered a problem mate! 

[64 kiwi boni]

Got home early from the beach today being a long weekend for us,

And got some time to prep surface and prime the drivers side fender, very happy with how straight it is, few nicks and scratch to deal with, but for now its bogged,  sanded, leveled and primed in white and will go on the car that way.

 The plan is to assemble everything, put the girl through vinning/nz road legal, then i will pull all the trim off and i already have the 2k paint system, supplied by my good painter mate who painted the hq ute( green car).prime her in light grey, go over the whole car and smooth all the imperfections, then second coat of 2 k primer, then she will go to my painter mate and be top coated in his spray booth...... thats the plan!!

But right now it!!! ...... BEER O CLOCK   

check out the pics, i did under seal the inner side with body sealer too, justA like i did the passenger side back in march last year, that fender is standing in my bar! waiting its day to be fitted to the nice straight frame its been my drinking buddy!

And for a whole year he has  been sitting there and has not been  o-fended 

Edited February 8, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[64 kiwi boni]

Now my bar mate has a friend, i hope my passengers side fender doesn't put up his guard and feel offended  

Edited February 8, 2021 by 64 kiwi boni

[Bonneville convertable64]

Super nice work! Takes a lot of patience and determination. I appreciate all the photos. This helps me with my own part search and repairs. I’m going through my newly acquired 1964 Bonneville. She turns a lot of heads and is super fun to drive. Mine is a California car so not much rust to worry about which makes repare so much easier. One totally restored seem to fetch around 50k. Nice to know they have value as you dump money into it.

[64 kiwi boni]

3 hours ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

Super nice work! Takes a lot of patience and determination. I appreciate all the photos. This helps me with my own part search and repairs. I’m going through my newly acquired 1964 Bonneville. She turns a lot of heads and is super fun to drive. Mine is a California car so not much rust to worry about which makes repare so much easier. One totally restored seem to fetch around 50k. Nice to know they have value as you dump money into it.

Welcome to fp  and its my pleasure to show you what is involved in putting one of these girls back together👍

My hard top is a California car too, so very little rust to deal with, justA the big scratch she had on the front thats been the big job hahahaha 

[Bonneville convertable64]

How did you get a California car? Did you buy and have it shipped or did some salvage company bring a big load of cars.

  Since this car is a keeper I’m ordering a new motor and transmission. The transmission is a JETAWAY. There is a tag on the back corner above the pan that should say pbs64 if yours is the same. I think I’m going stock on the motor vs fuel injection. What do you think?