cure for the boat on the water ride

[Old guy44]

I just finished putting an L83 with a DOD delete and comp cam and the 6L80E trans in my '63 Catalina convertible. Went from 11-12 MPG on premium to 17-18 on regular. Driveability is another world from the 389 and rotohydro. Six months to get it installed, a lot of difference working in your driveway as opposed to a completely equipped shop. We now come to the issue of the brake system inadequacy. Have to be real careful in LA  traffic. There are aftermarket disc systems out there just need to find out which is the best. 

My present question is the boat in the water ride typical of any full size american car of the era. There are companies out there that will make custom coil springs stiffer than stock but the question is how stiff. and is there somewhere that I can find out if there are much stiffer shocks out there that will fit the factory brackets? If not who can I talk to that can recommend an outboard shock that will go from the lower control arm to the frame, having been in structural steel in a former lifetime I can fabricate whatever brackets I need. Similar question for the rear . There must be something available because if you go to an air suspension there is no way to install the front shock in the stock location. To clarify I am not looking to set this up for track racing, just want a little more control on the street. When this thing was new there were a lot less cars on the road and the lanes were wider. I speak from personal experience.

This is my first ( and last) build in over 25 years so I am completely out of the current loop. This one will have to see me out as I do not have another build left in me so I want it right.

[Frosty]

If you are looking for a custom spring, I am told Eaton will make you to your specifications. Obviously it won't be cheap.

For brake systems, the bigger the clamping surface area and number of pistons is usually better. That said, a front disc brake conversion kit often means a minimum of a 15" wheel must be used in most cases. So an 11" rotor and disc caliper will like need a 15" wheel and tire combination. Anything larger and you will need to go even larger on the wheel diameter. Do you want to consider a rear disc conversion kit too?

If you are looking for a stiffer shock/coil combination then I would suggest you either call one of the OER catalog companies (like OPG, Ames, etc.) or one of the performance catalogs like Summit Racing. They should have suspension experts that can guide you. That being said, I see that Summit Racing has a front QA1 adjustable coilover/shock combo for the '63 Catalina. It's not cheap however.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qa1-gs507-09550d/overview/year/1963/make/pontiac/model/catalina

I think N adjustable shocks is what you are looking for to help stiffen the absorption and rebound. QA1 and KYB are two brands of shock that are considered adjustable.

The boat in the water feel varied from manufacturer to manufacturer in the GM line up back in the day. Chevy had the least "float" and Buick and Cadillac had the most "float". However you expected that from those cars back in the day too.

[Last Indian]

6 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

I just finished putting an L83 with a DOD delete and comp cam and the 6L80E trans in my '63 Catalina convertible. Went from 11-12 MPG on premium to 17-18 on regular. Driveability is another world from the 389 and rotohydro. Six months to get it installed, a lot of difference working in your driveway as opposed to a completely equipped shop. We now come to the issue of the brake system inadequacy. Have to be real careful in LA  traffic. There are aftermarket disc systems out there just need to find out which is the best. 

My present question is the boat in the water ride typical of any full size american car of the era. There are companies out there that will make custom coil springs stiffer than stock but the question is how stiff. and is there somewhere that I can find out if there are much stiffer shocks out there that will fit the factory brackets? If not who can I talk to that can recommend an outboard shock that will go from the lower control arm to the frame, having been in structural steel in a former lifetime I can fabricate whatever brackets I need. Similar question for the rear . There must be something available because if you go to an air suspension there is no way to install the front shock in the stock location. To clarify I am not looking to set this up for track racing, just want a little more control on the street. When this thing was new there were a lot less cars on the road and the lanes were wider. I speak from personal experience.

This is my first ( and last) build in over 25 years so I am completely out of the current loop. This one will have to see me out as I do not have another build left in me so I want it right.

Dwight, this will take a few days for me to gather the info. In short, if you’re able do the mods or get someone to do them, then yes you can get the ride you speak of and brakes too.

[Last Indian]

Dwight, first of all does the Catalina have air and did it have air originally? Does it have power brakes? 14” or 15” wheels? 

[Last Indian]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:55 PM, Old guy44 said:

I just finished putting an L83 with a DOD delete and comp cam and the 6L80E trans in my '63 Catalina convertible. Went from 11-12 MPG on premium to 17-18 on regular. Driveability is another world from the 389 and rotohydro. Six months to get it installed, a lot of difference working in your driveway as opposed to a completely equipped shop. We now come to the issue of the brake system inadequacy. Have to be real careful in LA  traffic. There are aftermarket disc systems out there just need to find out which is the best. 

My present question is the boat in the water ride typical of any full size american car of the era. There are companies out there that will make custom coil springs stiffer than stock but the question is how stiff. and is there somewhere that I can find out if there are much stiffer shocks out there that will fit the factory brackets? If not who can I talk to that can recommend an outboard shock that will go from the lower control arm to the frame, having been in structural steel in a former lifetime I can fabricate whatever brackets I need. Similar question for the rear . There must be something available because if you go to an air suspension there is no way to install the front shock in the stock location. To clarify I am not looking to set this up for track racing, just want a little more control on the street. When this thing was new there were a lot less cars on the road and the lanes were wider. I speak from personal experience.

This is my first ( and last) build in over 25 years so I am completely out of the current loop. This one will have to see me out as I do not have another build left in me so I want it right.

 

On 1/24/2020 at 8:40 PM, Last Indian said:

Dwight, first of all does the Catalina have air and did it have air originally? Does it have power brakes? 14” or 15” wheels? 

Dwight, Ultimately the simplest and most direct way to improve the ride and handling of a car that doesn’t handle and has a floating ride is as follows. Increase spring rate, increase size or add a sway bar, change center of gravity, change roll center and or change weight distribution. 
Changing shocks that function as a typical shock I.E. moving fluid or gas through an orifice will do very little to improve that symptom, but air shocks will! And quite dramatically if done right! Additionally if you do air shocks on all four corners; you can turn a boat into a sled or something in between. 

If it where me, I would start with Eaton Detroit Spring inc. I’ve worked with these guys for years, they are good and can help answer your questions! As an example, if you were to use the stock springs for a 1963 Safari wagon your ride would change immediately to a stiffer ride, but it might not sit right. But again the stock rear springs from a Safari and the stock OEM heavy duty front springs for a convertible with an air shock might be just right, I think they can help answer those kinds of questions.

An air shock will stiffen the ride anywhere from hardly detectable to holy crap are there springs in this thing. Rear air shocks for the Catalina are easy to get, front ones not so much so. With a little ingenuity and some searching you’ll find air shocks that will work up front! You may have to invert the shock upside down or use, say a 1969 Camaro rear shock on the front, actually that might fit looking at it at a glance, but none the less a little work on finding shock specs will get you there. There is actually a whole setup you can buy or make to adjust front and rear shocks up and down from inside the car, and don’t confuse that statement with the hydraulics setup some guys use to bounce there cars up and down! 
Also look in to adding or changing the sway bar up front and definitely add one to the back!

Now disc brakes! Depending on what you want and how much effort you want to put in, you can do basic and easy OEM style front disc with drums out back and run standard 15” wheel maybe 14”, depending on the rim. I’ll cover the OEM avenue! GM, better than any other manufacturer, built interchangeable components that spanned car models, divisions and years. Even when they were not intended for a particular model, often with minor modifications you could and still can get what you want. The attached photo shows a OEM front disc setup of parts. This setup bolts on/replaces a drum brake front end setup. You may need to add a spacer to one of the attaching bolt areas or machine down a boss to square the bracket. You might even have to take the brackets and modify them while maintaining the integrity of the area were the caliper goes, but in the end this setup takes one of the most reliable disc brake caliper ever used. It has a massive 2 15/16” piston, more than enough to stop any boat! You will need to change the master cylinder and if you add a power booster to the master cylinder, you will have a great braking system. If you have additional questions just ask there are a lot of competent folks here, like Frosty, JustA6 and Indymanjoe to name a few, who are always ready to help!

Good Luck!
 

[Old guy44]

Last Indian,

I like the way you think. I come from the era of mixing and matching what you could find in the junk yard. I can't state for sure but I could be the first person to ever have put disc brakes on the front of a try year chevy. Long story but one I would be willing to share if you are interested. 

Yes the Catalina has air, no it is not factory but the composite total of the parts used in the install does not add up to more than 150 lbs.  With regards to weight I have no exact figures but logic states that the L83 being all aluminum weighs less than the original cast iron 389. The 6L80 however probably weighs over twice what the original Roto-Hydro does. The combination of the 389 and trans and the l83 and trans are probably comparable but the center of the weight  mass has probably moved rearward by a foot or more. All this needs to be factored in and hopefully Detroit spring can help. 

As I stated I am aware that the spring rate(s) need to be increased, but who can I contact about air shocks? I did install a rear sway bar but only recently found a 1" front sway bar which will go on with everything else. I am not accustomed to finding aftermarket parts for the Catalina. They are not one of the more common 60's era cars and during the 60's it seems that Pontiac did almost everything different. Sometimes the simplest things like front suspension bushings. to rebuild the front suspension I had to remake available parts. I did this professionally when the car was new and in those days we referred to Pontiac as being the only foreign car made in America

While I am very aware of parts interchangeability between Cad, Olds Buick and Pontiac I am also aware that in many instances Pontiac chose not to take part. As stated earlier the front control arm bushings. I am quite comfortable with scouring pic a part for necessary hardware If I have some idea of what might work, or can be made to work. The '63 does have power brakes but I probably will get a different booster and master cylinder, preferably a dual chamber which would be considerably smaller diameter than the single that is presently cluttering up the firewall. By the way it is actually possible to operate a disc/drum system on a single master cylinder, My 55 Chev had corvette discs front and the original drums rear working with the original 55 master cylinder. My experience trumps your theory, but I digress. I do have 15" chrome smoothies with Caddie whites on the car, I was looking for an appearance that would approximate a 60's Van Nuys Blvd cruiser. My basic motivation is that I would much rather scour the junk yards and put together parts than to drop a grand on a kit. There is a lot more self satisfaction in doing it yourself.

 

[Old guy44]

Frosty,

Thanks for the link, I have been sick for almost two months now. Every time I think I am getting better someone else brings another new disease into the house that spreads like wildfire. Point being that I have had a lot of time on my hands and actually found it just before you sent it. I plan to call the manufacturer to chat about it as mine is not the average Pontiac. The ability to adjust ride height without dropping out the springs and trimming them is definitely desirable. When I used to screw with this on a fairly regular basis I had a friend in the spring business who would look in the books and find a spring with the same od but a different rate and I would need to temporarily install and check the ride height, take them out and trim slightly, do it again not taking off too much because you can't put it back on. I might add that I had my dad's fully equipped repair shop and attached machine shop at my disposal to do it. At this point in my life the price is worth the adjust-ability. I am 76 next June, do not have a hoist at my disposal and am getting too damn old to be crawling around under a car.

I like Last Indian's viewpoint on the disc brakes. When I actually did this for a living 25 years ago I had the luxury of seeing most of the cars that were on the road and being able to take dimensions and make notes that I could use to mix and match parts successfully. Things like OK this rotor has the correct bolt circle and setback but do the bearings fit my spindle. I always found a lot of satisfaction in taking a pile of scrap metal and turning it into something useful. Sitting here thinking, maybe I just need to take detailed measurements off of the Catalina and plan to spend a day at the local pick a part. whadoyathink?

[Last Indian]

On 1/26/2020 at 4:00 PM, Old guy44 said:

Last Indian,

I like the way you think. I come from the era of mixing and matching what you could find in the junk yard. I can't state for sure but I could be the first person to ever have put disc brakes on the front of a try year chevy. Long story but one I would be willing to share if you are interested. 

Yes the Catalina has air, no it is not factory but the composite total of the parts used in the install does not add up to more than 150 lbs.  With regards to weight I have no exact figures but logic states that the L83 being all aluminum weighs less than the original cast iron 389. The 6L80 however probably weighs over twice what the original Roto-Hydro does. The combination of the 389 and trans and the l83 and trans are probably comparable but the center of the weight  mass has probably moved rearward by a foot or more. All this needs to be factored in and hopefully Detroit spring can help. 

As I stated I am aware that the spring rate(s) need to be increased, but who can I contact about air shocks? I did install a rear sway bar but only recently found a 1" front sway bar which will go on with everything else. I am not accustomed to finding aftermarket parts for the Catalina. They are not one of the more common 60's era cars and during the 60's it seems that Pontiac did almost everything different. Sometimes the simplest things like front suspension bushings. to rebuild the front suspension I had to remake available parts. I did this professionally when the car was new and in those days we referred to Pontiac as being the only foreign car made in America

While I am very aware of parts interchangeability between Cad, Olds Buick and Pontiac I am also aware that in many instances Pontiac chose not to take part. As stated earlier the front control arm bushings. I am quite comfortable with scouring pic a part for necessary hardware If I have some idea of what might work, or can be made to work. The '63 does have power brakes but I probably will get a different booster and master cylinder, preferably a dual chamber which would be considerably smaller diameter than the single that is presently cluttering up the firewall. By the way it is actually possible to operate a disc/drum system on a single master cylinder, My 55 Chev had corvette discs front and the original drums rear working with the original 55 master cylinder. My experience trumps your theory, but I digress. I do have 15" chrome smoothies with Caddie whites on the car, I was looking for an appearance that would approximate a 60's Van Nuys Blvd cruiser. My basic motivation is that I would much rather scour the junk yards and put together parts than to drop a grand on a kit. There is a lot more self satisfaction in doing it yourself.

 

Dwight, I would love to hear your story of Tri Five Chevy! I see you’re 75, I thought you might be, you know, Old Guy 44! I’m right behind you, 68. I’ve built a lot of cars and modified even more which includes designing and building my own brake system from scratch for my “69 z/28”, so yes I would believe and understand using a single stage master cylinder! I’ve done the same! The only real reason to use a duel stage is so if there is a failure of one wheel you at least have the other set to stop with, it really was a fail safe reason!

That said, I don’t have all the specs, but with respect to the brakes, I think the front spindles of the Catalina are pretty darn close to my Zs spindle configurations. If you could get a hold of a spindle for the first Gen F body you could compare. They used that spindle on 67-69 Camaro’s and 68-79 Nova, Omega, Phoenix, Apollo, Venture. So honestly I think the setup I spoke of just might work for you. Likewise the air shocks from the back of the Z just might work on the front of the Catalina as well! I think they will fit inside the spring I.D. and they would have the threaded stud setup at the top to attach at the frame bracket. If that were to prove out, you would just have to make the dog bone to go through the lower eyelet for attachment at the Aarm. You would also have to install the shock at the same time as the spring due to the air shocks size.
 

I didn’t take a lot of pictures in those days, but this is one taken of the front brake setup I designed and built for the Z. The back was very similar just thinner rotors. If you look close you’ll see that they were a three piece rotor, sorry I mean caliper. They were full floating with the actuating bolts set in double shear. The are also an all aluminum caliper.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Last Indian

[Old guy44]

The 55 started out with a 327 and 4 speed setting on the shop floor. I acquired the complete front suspension off of a 66 or 67 corvette whichever was the first year for disc brake in a horse trade involving a lot of stuff. It was complete with rotors calipers, even had the brake hoses. So here is this pile of parts with no home. A good friend of mine gave a pretty nice 55 210 post to his little brother but Joe wanted a hardtop. I heard about it and called him up to see what he needed for the 210. I used to be pretty good with a dumore grinder so I ported a set of heads in exchange for the 210 which had been pretty well pirated. Fortunately he left the interior alone. 

So  I am looking at the Corvette suspension wondering how do I adapt it to the 55. Seems that the 55 inner cross shafts fit in the corvette lower arms, they use the same bushings and are spaced the same. That bolted the lower arms to the 55 but the ball joint stud was one inch farther out and two inches farther forward than the location  of the original. By machining out a tapered shim for the stud I used the 55 upper arm but with the upper mount in the stock location the front end would not align. So I ground off all the welds on the upper mounts and  with the car on the hoist all the suspension parts bolted together and the hoist holding the car at the correct ride height I put an alignment gauge on  the front wheels and moved the upper mounts around to where the wheels would align. clamped it down and welded it on. as a consequence the front wheels were farther forward in the wheel wells and looking at it you knew that something was wrong but just could not figure out what.

There is more to the dual master cylinder than the failure of half the system there is also the residual check valve. The Corvette calipers were a 4 piston calper with spring loaded pistons. With the residual check valve in the master cylinder it ate up the first set of brake pads in an oil change. So by now I have figured out that somehow I need to eliminate the residual check valve and without a proportioning valve the rear end can get a little squirrelly under certain hard braking. The 55 rear wheel cylinder casting came in about a half dozen bore sizes so I just got the smallest they made, think it was 3/4 inch, used eis expander series springs and cups to hopefully keep the rear cylinders from sucking air without the check valve and keeping the rear brakes adjusted tight it worked. 

I drove the car for a  couple of years and at the time I had 4 or 5 cars sitting around. Came home one evening from work intending to go somewhere and there was not a car in sight. Only thing I had to drive was my work truck which I had the only set of keys for. My ex wifes worthless relatives were driving ever one of my cars. The next week in a fit of rage I sold them all. The 55 went to a friend that had a 63 409 horse 409 hardtop in the back yard. The one with the dual AFB's and the huge cast iron headers.  The impala had encountered an elevated railroad crossing at about 105 and when it finally came back in contact with mother earth the results were not happy. The front tires had about 15 to 20 degrees of negative camber and the middle of the frame was about 5 inches closer to the ground than it started. 

At the time Mike was going to college and drove the 55 with the 327 and T10 4 speed until the next summer. Apparently he spent the entire school year wondering about the 409 in the 55. Come summer it was pretty much established in his mind that it would happen. Being tired of the third pedal commuting to and from school he did some horse trading and came up  with a B&M turbo 400. Here is where it gets interesting. I do not know if you ever saw a 409 in a try year chev but to install one you had to set it high because it would not fit down between the upper control arms, HOWEVER because the upper mounts on mine were moved out with the disc brake install there was just enough room to sit it in with about a quarter inch of clearance on either side. 

I don't know who built the 409 but whoever it was knew what they were doing. This thing was fast and you could not keep the rear end on the ground. Mike did not want traction bars on the bottom that showed so we built bars over the housing that were not visible. It was an interesting system, when you stood on it the whole car would raise straight up and level driving the rear wheels down hard. I would like to say that it was engineered to do that but it just happened. We put 4-11 gears in the rear and the first time Mike stood on it in front of the shop it hooked up so tight that it sheared off all 10 ring gear bolts. we had to replace them with grade 8 bolts. 

There used to be a shop out here called Herbert and Meek. Hot Rod magazine often did car shoots there and Mike was looking for something so he stopped by Herbert and Meek to see if they might have whatever it was. HRM just happened to be doing a shoot so mike parked and just stood out by the car waiting for them to get done. He saw the photographer do a double take of his car and knew why so he just stood there trying to be nonchalant when the photographer wandered out for a closer look. The car had the early rallye wheels on it so you could see the disc brakes through the  holes in the wheels and when he got close enough to see the disc brakes he looked under the car saw the three inch head pipes with that he straightened up and said OK kid what is the story with this car. Obviously the hood went up and the photographers first remark was I have seen a lot of 409's in a lot of Chevys but this is the first one I have ever seen that looked like it belonged there. I  took that as quite a compliment from a guy that had probably seen more hot rods than most of the population ever would. They had a lengthy conversation about the car, who built it how it came about etc. I wondered for a while if it might make it into the magazine but it never did.

I reacquired the car but a divorce required much liquidation and it was my understanding that the new owner wrapped it around a phone pole. A sad end.

So that is the saga of one of the two cars I have owned that I wish I still had. The other was my first ride, a 56 Corvette. What is it that they say, you never forget your first love.

 

[Last Indian]

20 hours ago, Old guy44 said:

The 55 started out with a 327 and 4 speed setting on the shop floor. I acquired the complete front suspension off of a 66 or 67 corvette whichever was the first year for disc brake in a horse trade involving a lot of stuff. It was complete with rotors calipers, even had the brake hoses. So here is this pile of parts with no home. A good friend of mine gave a pretty nice 55 210 post to his little brother but Joe wanted a hardtop. I heard about it and called him up to see what he needed for the 210. I used to be pretty good with a dumore grinder so I ported a set of heads in exchange for the 210 which had been pretty well pirated. Fortunately he left the interior alone. 

So  I am looking at the Corvette suspension wondering how do I adapt it to the 55. Seems that the 55 inner cross shafts fit in the corvette lower arms, they use the same bushings and are spaced the same. That bolted the lower arms to the 55 but the ball joint stud was one inch farther out and two inches farther forward than the location  of the original. By machining out a tapered shim for the stud I used the 55 upper arm but with the upper mount in the stock location the front end would not align. So I ground off all the welds on the upper mounts and  with the car on the hoist all the suspension parts bolted together and the hoist holding the car at the correct ride height I put an alignment gauge on  the front wheels and moved the upper mounts around to where the wheels would align. clamped it down and welded it on. as a consequence the front wheels were farther forward in the wheel wells and looking at it you knew that something was wrong but just could not figure out what.

There is more to the dual master cylinder than the failure of half the system there is also the residual check valve. The Corvette calipers were a 4 piston calper with spring loaded pistons. With the residual check valve in the master cylinder it ate up the first set of brake pads in an oil change. So by now I have figured out that somehow I need to eliminate the residual check valve and without a proportioning valve the rear end can get a little squirrelly under certain hard braking. The 55 rear wheel cylinder casting came in about a half dozen bore sizes so I just got the smallest they made, think it was 3/4 inch, used eis expander series springs and cups to hopefully keep the rear cylinders from sucking air without the check valve and keeping the rear brakes adjusted tight it worked. 

I drove the car for a  couple of years and at the time I had 4 or 5 cars sitting around. Came home one evening from work intending to go somewhere and there was not a car in sight. Only thing I had to drive was my work truck which I had the only set of keys for. My ex wifes worthless relatives were driving ever one of my cars. The next week in a fit of rage I sold them all. The 55 went to a friend that had a 63 409 horse 409 hardtop in the back yard. The one with the dual AFB's and the huge cast iron headers.  The impala had encountered an elevated railroad crossing at about 105 and when it finally came back in contact with mother earth the results were not happy. The front tires had about 15 to 20 degrees of negative camber and the middle of the frame was about 5 inches closer to the ground than it started. 

At the time Mike was going to college and drove the 55 with the 327 and T10 4 speed until the next summer. Apparently he spent the entire school year wondering about the 409 in the 55. Come summer it was pretty much established in his mind that it would happen. Being tired of the third pedal commuting to and from school he did some horse trading and came up  with a B&M turbo 400. Here is where it gets interesting. I do not know if you ever saw a 409 in a try year chev but to install one you had to set it high because it would not fit down between the upper control arms, HOWEVER because the upper mounts on mine were moved out with the disc brake install there was just enough room to sit it in with about a quarter inch of clearance on either side. 

I don't know who built the 409 but whoever it was knew what they were doing. This thing was fast and you could not keep the rear end on the ground. Mike did not want traction bars on the bottom that showed so we built bars over the housing that were not visible. It was an interesting system, when you stood on it the whole car would raise straight up and level driving the rear wheels down hard. I would like to say that it was engineered to do that but it just happened. We put 4-11 gears in the rear and the first time Mike stood on it in front of the shop it hooked up so tight that it sheared off all 10 ring gear bolts. we had to replace them with grade 8 bolts. 

There used to be a shop out here called Herbert and Meek. Hot Rod magazine often did car shoots there and Mike was looking for something so he stopped by Herbert and Meek to see if they might have whatever it was. HRM just happened to be doing a shoot so mike parked and just stood out by the car waiting for them to get done. He saw the photographer do a double take of his car and knew why so he just stood there trying to be nonchalant when the photographer wandered out for a closer look. The car had the early rallye wheels on it so you could see the disc brakes through the  holes in the wheels and when he got close enough to see the disc brakes he looked under the car saw the three inch head pipes with that he straightened up and said OK kid what is the story with this car. Obviously the hood went up and the photographers first remark was I have seen a lot of 409's in a lot of Chevys but this is the first one I have ever seen that looked like it belonged there. I  took that as quite a compliment from a guy that had probably seen more hot rods than most of the population ever would. They had a lengthy conversation about the car, who built it how it came about etc. I wondered for a while if it might make it into the magazine but it never did.

I reacquired the car but a divorce required much liquidation and it was my understanding that the new owner wrapped it around a phone pole. A sad end.

So that is the saga of one of the two cars I have owned that I wish I still had. The other was my first ride, a 56 Corvette. What is it that they say, you never forget your first love.

 

Actually, I’m very familiar with all the nuances of the master cylinder. When I designed the brake system for my Z, I spent a lot of time just doing the math to build the right system for that specific car! In that way I ran a straight up hydraulic brake system! No check valves, no residual pressure, no proportioning valve, no square cut O’rings and no ester based fluid. So I get you 100%! With production cars it’s a whole different animal. They make a system, understandably so, that suits a multitude of cars with all different weights, different weight distribution, length wheel bases etc.

The 55 caper sounds a lot like my Z, that car was a monster! The mods I did to that car and the time frame in which I was doing them; well it was insane! 

It was good to hear your story! Thanks for sharing!