Dyno Effectiveness

[60DegreeVVT]

Please someone help me understand how a dyno is "Not accurate" i am requesting some info regarding differences between two products....

Question...

Is there any dyno vids and graphs showing the difference in HP an TQ curves between the GTR and the std Camaro magnaflow muffler and the stocker?

I mean you have the parts to do all this. Maybe not the stock exhayst anymore but the starting point of the camaro muffler, Dyno, then your rebaffled GTR setup and dyno.

That would be some great selling points. Seat of pants is not as accurate as computers. I know you said that you didnt have dyno runs, like in the past however you system is always getting talk and you have posted saying that you use the seat of the pants dyno.

It seems like this could be e end all be all of answers for those in the market for exhaust systems or wanting to piece together a "custom" system.

the response....

I tried in depth to explain how this works, while some got it, some did not. I'll try one more time. No matter what you're running whether it be a G6 or a Corvette, peak hp, or peak torque is bs, and it is used as a selling tool on those that just don't know better. What is important are the numbers under the power curve, the (ENTIRE) power curve. This is what makes a strong running car. A combination that peaks then drops off, or a combination that makes it's top power outside a usable and practical rpm means nothing. While a dyno is a great tuning tool for those that know how to use one as such, it is not a very good tool to show consistent or accurate numbers. I can have a dyno say what ever I want it to say, depending on how I program it, and while I have dynoed the GT-R and know exactly what it is capable of, I don't brag about the numbers, and have never felt the need to do so. We have plenty of systems out there, and had the system not performed correctly, I think we would all know it. I think it would be easier for me to post numbers, and say there you have it, but in the end it's the customers that will rate the system. Some here have gone with systems that have actually caused their cars to slow down (loss of torque) and this from systems that advertise peak hp and torque. In the end the customer knew better, but not till after they bought and installed the system. Like I said, it's just a selling tool for those that don't know better, and it works. I just don't believe in playing that game. I am here on this forum everyday, and can answer any questions you may have, try that with the other systems.

does this sound right? i understand what he is saying. like i can read it and follow what he says but i just dont understand how a Dyno is not an accurate tool to measure effectiveness of a product.

Discuss

[60DegreeVVT]

no one wants to touch this?

Chaos... where is your banter?

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I swear to god, this guy is a blithering moron.

He says it's all BS so he can sell his shitty re-branded Magnaflow mufflers.

Ryan, this guy is a scam artist backed by an entire website, fock this guy.

[G0VTCH33ZE]

He has a point, there are so many different variables that come into play. It's weird why he's not sharing his results, maybe they could hurt sales, maybe there are no dyno results. His response isn't full of shit, but the numbers might not be worth bragging about.

Has there ever been a before/after dyno run from another members' car?

[60DegreeVVT]

i do agree that different dynos can show different numbers. and what is shown should be taken with a grain of salt.

HOWEVER. if there is a baseline and then a exhaust swap then another run we can see a difference.

my favorite part is how he put so much R&D into the product. dont you think with all of the MILLIONS of dollars put in to Maganaflows R&D department for a 6 cyl "Camaro" muffler they would have produced the best option possible?

how can he claim improvement when he cant show anything.

oh by the way when no one is looking my car hovers and i save gas by adding the GT-Hover mod. it improves gasmilage across teh board.

and no you cant see my data. it is confidential. like the car that runs on water.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

That's what irritates me about the idiot. All I ever asked was for proof and/or a dyno sheet. But always, and I mean ALWAYS, the other mods would jump down my throat, delete my posts, and the douche would PM me, "DERP DERP I has a degree, I has R&D, I am god, STFU and GTFO LOLOL"

And like you said, Magnaflow has put $$$ into the F-body mufflers and cat-back systems. What the hell could he be "improving"? I bet if I set what the douche rocket's "product" to Magnaflow's engineers, they'd probably die from laughter. Then sue his ass for copyright infringements.

I want him to be trampled by a herd of angry mountain goats.

[60DegreeVVT]

There is always is offreport.com

Lol

But if i had the money i would totes do it. The problem is he has everything. The raw magnaflow, and his redesigned. It would be totally easy for him. I just dont get how the "seat of the pants dyno" and customer reviews has any implications of its true performance or gains.

Hell who is to say that the raw camaro muffler seat of the pants dyno is not impressive? Where are the numbers?

[[ChaosweaveR]]

I was talking about this on the chatroom on FTV6, how the GT-R exhaust is sold, his ads, everything.

I've never seen so much laughter in a chat ever.

From some of the regs, the first thing they said was "Hellooooooooooooo lawsuit,"

[60DegreeVVT]

Lawsuit how?

[Ringo64]

Please keep the foul language and the insulting down, keep an intelligent conversation going and I won't close this

If this results even more in bashing GT-R I will close this... I have no problem with you proving him wrong but if you are just insulting him then you are just as bad as he is with not giving you facts

[60DegreeVVT]

Does anyone here have the GTR?

[G0VTCH33ZE]

There's no way he can be sued, PLENTY of people market their exhaust systems using other branded mufflers. He even specifies what muffler is used, if he has crossed any line, then so has Milzy. Not gonna happen

[G0VTCH33ZE]

There are only 3 differences between the GTR and Magnaflow; resonator, 1 more bend in GTR, and the dual outlet muffler. That's it. So I'd say the performance gains would be not too far from Magnaflows' numbers.

[Phenom]

Does anyone here have the GTR?

BAMBAMM does and need i remind you that Lampoon has an active account here on FP so anything u write he can see...

[60DegreeVVT]

BAMBAMM does and need i remind you that Lampoon has an active account here on FP so anything u write he can see...

Um... i think Sam, Chris, Robert and all of the rest of the people on FP, G6P and G6OC all know how i feel.

i say this to them all the time but i always get deleted or shunned.

all i want to do is go over the original post.

Is a Dyno report not accurate for judging performance gains. is the "seat of the pants" more effective?

Answer that. take the question elsewhere i dont care. i just want someone to answer why a SUPER expensive tool that many tuners, performance companies and customers use to judge gains is written off as useless.

someone please take this to other boards, people and get some answers.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

Um... i think Sam, Chris, Robert and all of the rest of the people on FP, G6P and G6OC all know how i feel.

i say this to them all the time but i always get deleted or shunned.

all i want to do is go over the original post.

Is a Dyno report not accurate for judging performance gains. is the "seat of the pants" more effective?

Answer that. take the question elsewhere i dont care. i just want someone to answer why a SUPER expensive tool that many tuners, performance companies and customers use to judge gains is written off as useless.

someone please take this to other boards, people and get some answers.

I'm in the same boat. I doubt we'll ever get an answer from him...

[G0VTCH33ZE]

Is a Dyno report not accurate for judging performance gains. is the "seat of the pants" more effective?

Answer that. take the question elsewhere i dont care. i just want someone to answer why a SUPER expensive tool that many tuners, performance companies and customers use to judge gains is written off as useless.

No a dyno is way more effective lol. It just sounds like he is maybe stubborn and stuck in his ways, he does have a point to his reply. Unfortunately it holds little merit, like I said in my last post, it's not that far from Magnaflows' system. So in short, I'd buy it if I wanted dual outlets. Might cut out that extra bend before the muffler, as it's not needed, but yea....

[markpetersonii]

This is what started my Ban from there. I'd quit while you're not permanently on this forum lol

[60DegreeVVT]

if asking for what should be reasonable gets me banned... well then that is ok.

I just want the original question asked. ARE DYNOS EFFECTIVE?!?!

[[ChaosweaveR]]

From every other source I've poked around at,

Yes, dynos are a helluva lot more accurate than some douche saying it adds HP.

[G0VTCH33ZE]

I just want the original question asked. ARE DYNOS EFFECTIVE?!?!

Yes, yes, & yes....

[60DegreeVVT]

Then why do i get shot down everytime i bring this up over there?

[G0VTCH33ZE]

Then why do i get shot down everytime i bring this up over there?

He's still a supporting member on that forum right? If he is, then asking potentially harmful (for business) questions would hurt support for the board, as he wouldn't pay to advertise on a board that discredits his work.

[[ChaosweaveR]]

He's still a supporting member on that forum right? If he is, then asking potentially harmful (for business) questions would hurt support for the board, as he wouldn't pay to advertise on a board that discredits his work.

But the mods attacking people like myself and Ryan who are just asking questions about the dyno numbers do NOT make their own product look good. Other people walking in would probably scratch their heads in wonder on why the mods are freaking out from a simple question.

[G0VTCH33ZE]

' date='Oct 7 2010, 10:04 AM' post='38104']

But the mods attacking people like myself and Ryan who are just asking questions about the dyno numbers do NOT make their own product look good. Other people walking in would probably scratch their heads in wonder on why the mods are freaking out from a simple question.

Well Idk then, it's pretty much the same as the Magnaflow system, I'm sure the dyno numbers are close between the systems.