RED undercoating

[Wrongway]

So within the last week or so I read a post or a for sale ad, may have even been something on this site but I honestly don't remember. With all my charging issues at the time I didn't pay it much attention, but its been chewing away at the back of my brain. This fella made reference to the "original red Pontiac undercoat." Does anybody know what years Pontiac used a red undercoating? I've looked online unsuccessfully. Did they actually do this and did Buick, Olds or anybody else use any color other than black for their undercoating?  

[65gtotrips]

10 minutes ago, Wrongway said:

So within the last week or so I read a post or a for sale ad, may have even been something on this site but I honestly don't remember. With all my charging issues at the time I didn't pay it much attention, but its been chewing away at the back of my brain. This fella made reference to the "original red Pontiac undercoat." Does anybody know what years Pontiac used a red undercoating? I've looked online unsuccessfully. Did they actually do this and did Buick, Olds or anybody else use any color other than black for their undercoating?  

 

The reference may have been for the ‘RED’ wheel well inserts that were available as an option from like ‘66-‘72 (like in that time frame).

See this link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-67-GTO-LeMans-Red-Fender-Quarter-Wheel-Well-Liners-Fender-Well-/271418200839

OR

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Pontiac%22+%22well%22+%22liners%22+%22red%22&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjc3cyVzK_gAhUJTd8KHW65A2AQ2-cCegQIABAC&oq=%22Pontiac%22+%22well%22+%22liners%22+%22red%22&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-img.3..33i299l2.7657.14271..14832...0.0..0.328.792.4j1j0j1......0....1.b1H202BbnaM&ei=DkZfXNweiZr9Bu7yjoAG&bih=696&biw=414&hl=en-US#imgrc=Nq5hu1NI5o_j0M

 

[Wrongway]

Thanks Trip. That may very well be what he was referring to when he was talking about his frame. Maybe he thought everything was that color then. I just hadn't heard or seen anything other than black undercoating and it kinda peaked my interest so I thought id mention it. So those were an option, but why? Were they lighter or more of a vanity thing?

Hmmmm that ebay link says they are plastic liners. Interesting

 

[TWO LANE BLACK TOP]

The red inner fenders were used (but not always) in the GM  A body cars with the top engine options....Like a W30.. 442 olds or a Ram Air GTO..Stage 1 GS Buick..Etc..

Edited February 10, 2019 by TWO LANE BLACK TOP

[Wrongway]

Ok, that's cool. Thanks, cant say I remember ever seeing any but I'll be on the look out now

[SPRINT 6]

RED OXIDE PRIMER is more likely what they may have been referring too.

If you oped out of undercoating you would see all this primer on the tubs, pans and frame rails of some of the later cars.

[Wrongway]

That sounds more like what he was talking about Sprint since he was calling it undercoating. Interesting to think about why somebody would opt out  of undercoating though. 

[Wrongway]

So I was able to find all kinds of info on the red oxide primer where I couldn't when searching for red undercoating. Thanks again Sprint, here's a couple pics of what it looked like. There's a fella that said he doesn't think anybody makes it anymore but has got a recipe in a post I found, for a paint, not a primer that looks really super close for those restoring there car and didn't want to use just a primer.

[Last Indian]

1 hour ago, Wrongway said:

So I was able to find all kinds of info on the red oxide primer where I couldn't when searching for red undercoating. Thanks again Sprint, here's a couple pics of what it looked like. There's a fella that said he doesn't think anybody makes it anymore but has got a recipe in a post I found, for a paint, not a primer that looks really super close for those restoring there car and didn't want to use just a primer.

Red oxide paint is still available from many companies, Rust-oleum, Sherwin Williams, etc. red oxide paint is lead paint, but not quite that simple to make as it is tetraoxide of lead and reacts with steel and iron as opposed to just lead in paint.

The reason folks would for go undercoating on a car and leave just the red oxide were usually to distinctly different reasons! One was cheap the other was smart. Undercoating/rustproofing was just a plain bad product, and I had 20 years of research to prove that out.

A lot of guys that opted out would then paint the underside, fenderwells, frame etc with a good quality paint intended to enhance the red oxides properties. You see undercoating did not stop rusting, not in the rust belt! What it did was delay it so when the car showed signs of rust, (about 7 to 8 years) the whole car was gone in 6 months. Salt would actually migrate through the rustproofing and go to the steel, but without a good oxygen supply it rusted more evenly as opposed to how it rusted when rubberized tar coated, which was usually edges first. Which became evident in about 3 to 4 years.

Nothing, and I mean nothing works better than paint! Good, very high end good paint. Paint that is meant for frames, farm equipment etc. The advantage in paint is that it’s either there or it’s not! And you can see that and fix it. Not so with undercoating/rustproofing. Even red oxide by itself, unpainted, will do a better job than undercoating/rustproofing if you keep it painted when the paint gets abraded away.

[SPRINT 6]

Lets not forget the certain group of Pontaics that were built sans Undercoating, Seam Sealer, Steel Fenders and lots of other items to shed weight  

[Wrongway]

Wow, Indian, I had know idea that there was that much to think about when it came down to what I thought was simple undercoating. I'll have a lot to think about if I decide to redo the undercoating on mine. So let me ask you since you've done the research, do would it be better to use a regular paint like the PPG I'm going to put on the body or something like POR-15 for the frame and floor pans? Also, since my Grand Prix is NOT a numbers matching I'm not to worried about it being totally factory correct. I just want it done right so I can be passed down.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Wrongway

[Last Indian]

22 minutes ago, Wrongway said:

Wow, Indian, I had know idea that there was that much to think about when it came down to what I thought was simple undercoating. I'll have a lot to think about if I decide to redo the undercoating on mine. So let me ask you since you've done the research, do would it be better to use a regular paint like the PPG I'm going to put on the body or something like POR-15 for the frame and floor pans? Also, since my Grand Prix is NOT a numbers matching I'm not to worried about it being totally factory correct. I just want it done right so I can be passed down.

The best paint I’ve ever used for the undercarriage/frame/suspension with the exception of powder coat, which is cost prohibitive for most undercarriage work is Hammerite rust cap. It’s a little hard to explain, but if you go to the progression section and look at FWD ground pounder, you only need to look at the first page. There are quite a few pictures of that paint in black and silver. A good visual example is the Aarm, but you can see it on the floor, rockers, frame, as well as some of the suspension pieces.

This paint has 30% glass flakes in it. When you paint it on it’s all most like painting with contact glue! It’s that tacky! When it dries, a good 24 hr, it’s hard as hell and bonds to a good base paint like few I’ve ever used. You will need at least two coats,but I would do 3. It will chip, but not without some effort.

[Wrongway]

Ok cool. Thanks again for all the good info guys and ill definitely check out Hammerite  Indian.