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Federated52

'69 GTO problems ???

Question

Hey everyone,
I have just got a '69 GTO up & running after approx. 20+ years of storage. It starts & runs fine, but when I turn the key off it sputters & spits for approx. 30 seconds before completely shutting off. Also, the right turn signal works fine inside & out, but the left does not work at all inside & out. When I put on the 4-way flashers they all work. The last problem I have is the convertible top worked when I put it away for the winter last fall (Although a little slowly), but now it does not work at all. Any help with any of these problems would be really helpful. I know there are many smart people on here that could help so thanks ahead of time.

Thanks Again,
Todd

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Posted (edited)

Hi Federated52, welcome to FP.

For your turn signal problem, check all the bulbs, both front and back and left side side markers, you probably have a burnt out turn signal bulb somewhere in the left turn circuit. 

When the engine wants to keep running after you turn the ignition off, it's called "dieseling". A few things could effect it. Do you know what your engine RPM is when you turn it off? If the engine is running too fast, this can happen. You r idle RPM should be around 800. More than that and the vacuum or mechanic advance might be kicking in. Check your engine's initial timing, is it within spec? Too much advance can cause dieseling. Finally what shape is the carb in? Carb plates that don't close completely can contribute to this. That's why a lot of carbs have a fast engine stop solenoid mounted on the carb or intake to prevent this.

Some follow-up questions for you on your convertible top. Do you hear the motor for the power top running both up and down, even if it is not moving? Or is there no sound at all? No sound may mean the electric switch or the pump motor has died. If there is sound you may have a hydraulic fluid leak. Pull your backseat and side quarter panels out and check your rear seat and trunk floors for hydraulic fluid. Your lines, the rams, or the motor maybe leaking. The motor for the top is mounted in the trunk behind the back seat - towards the back. There is a little rubber plug on the right hand side towards the top that you can remove to add more fluid. I find using a small clear plastic ketchup bottle with a pointed tip is the easiest way to add fluid without making too much of a mess. These bottles were $2 at my local supermarket. 

 

Edited by Frosty
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For some reason when I checked the  turn signals today they worked fine. Maybe just a loose connection somewhere.

Don't know what the RPM is at idle. I can try lowering the idle on the carb to see if that does the trick. A friend helped me set the timing at the end of the season last year, but still could be off. The carb was rebuilt about a year ago.

When I push the button for the conv. top I hear no sound at all. So sounds like I'll be looking for a new motor  if the switch is working. How hard is it to change the motor for a novice? (I never had to change one.)

My neighbor does Mustang (Ford) restorations, but he is very busy, so I thought I would try on my own first.

Thanks for all you're help, I will try to trouble shoot them over the weekend.

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Posted (edited)

Changing the convertible motor is fairly easy but not cheap ($220-$350 depending on where you get it). Getting in and out of the trunk is a serious pain in the butt (for me at least). The motor is mounted by 3-4 screws on rubber isolation mounts at the back of the trunk. Crawling inside the trunk is the easiest way to get to it. There are two hydraulic line going to/from the pump. You will want to catch that fluid or it will leak all over.

Visually check your lines. If there is not a lot of fluid in the lines, you may have a leak, which you will have to fix once you know where it is leaking from.

On the picture below, note the rubber grommet at the left. This is what you remove to add transmission fluid / hydraulic fluid using the ketchup bottle method I mentioned earlier.

CTP647M-lrg.jpg

Be sure to test your switch too.

One last thing, check your fuses. The top runs off the Power Accessory 30A fuse. The top plugs into the fuse panel. Make sure it is plugged in. In the diagram below, the red wirie is plugged into one of three locations between the left and right bank of fuses. This is where your top's power wired should be plugged into. 

0606sc_29_z+camaro_led_taillights+fuse_b

 

For your turn lights, still check every bulb and then check the connector socket to see if you have any sort of corrosion building up in one or more of them. Clean/repair as necessary. Sometimes you will find corrosion on the bottom of  bulbs themselves. Use a dab of di-electric grease when you put them back together.

 

Good luck, let us know how things go. As always, pictures help!

 

Edited by Frosty

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Ok well I think I found the turn signal issue. The taillight housing bolts were loose, so the ground wire was only making contact once in a while. I tightened the housing bolts & it seems to be working fine now. I did put dielectric grease on all the bulbs just to add some insurance.

The top motor is working, just very slowly. I blew a fuse were you said to look. It just maybe low on fluid. I will have to see if I somehow find out what fluid is used in it. I heard you cannot mix them or it will blow out the motor?

As for the "dieseling", I did turn down the idle on the carb, started it & let it run for about 5 min, then shut it off & no "dieseling" took place. It just shut right off.

So hopefully I just have to add a little fluid to it & it will be fine. I will let you know how I make out.

Thanks again for all the help,

Todd

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Turn signal issue fixed.......Hopefully.

Added trans fluid to motor (made a mess) top is going up & down much better now. Put a 30 amp fuse in 'cause it kept blowing 20 amp fuses.

"Dieseling" issue fixed......Hopefully.

Thank You again for the help.

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Glad we could help!

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Good Job Frosty!

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Thanks Joe!

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Thanks for sharing the pictures. She looks great!

Was the squealing from the tires or perhaps one of the engine belts?

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Thank You.       Good question. It sounded like the tires, but could be a belt......I did put new belts on. Will have to check to see if they are tight.

Thanks for the heads up.

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16 hours ago, Federated52 said:

Thank You.       Good question. It sounded like the tires, but could be a belt......I did put new belts on. Will have to check to see if they are tight.

Thanks for the heads up.

Lucy squeals from time to time when I turn the steering wheel all the way to the left or right. I can't get the power steering belt any tighter without fear of breaking it. So I use a belt quieting/lubricant spray to help keep it as quiet as possible.

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I will give it a shot.  It is when I turn it all the way one way or the other. I'll let you know if it works.

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Very nice Pontiac! 

 

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Thank You indymanjoe. It was my fathers. He bought it & let it sit in a garage since 1981. About 5 years after he passed away I finally got it running, driving, & stopping. (Hopefully) Now to get it insured, transfer the title, and register it in my name. Then I can start actually driving it.

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Nice car! Mine was my dads too. He special ordered it in ‘71.  Makes our cars just that much more special. 

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Thank You Robbin, That's really cool that he bought it new & made it what he wanted. It does make it more special. My Dad also bought a 1966 Grand Prix new. He took my Mom on their fist date & eventually their honeymoon in it. After that it was only used for weddings & such. It has approximately 12880 miles on it. A friend of mine helped me get it up & running for her for mothers day 2 years ago. She is a little nervous driving it though, because she is afraid something might happen to it, so I do most of the driving when she wants to take it out, which doesn't bother me.

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Ok,

Well she's been sitting for a few weeks now & when I went to put the top up, the motor was working but would not raise the top. I checked the fluid & it is still full. I had some one push the up button while I "helped" the top up. once it got about 1/2 way it worked the rest of the way. I'm thinking there is air in the lines? If that is the case how do I "bleed" the air out without making a mess in the trunk?

Thanks

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This is the fun part. 

71UXp4oOSDL._SX679_.jpg

You need to remove the black plug at the top left of the picture. This typically takes a flat head screw driver, needle nose pliers, and your fingers. The pump is located in the trunk, on the trunk shelf behind the spare tire. It is usually hidden by your canvas top protector. You may have to empty the trunk and crawl inside to get to it.

Use some sort of oil can squirter or small ketchup bottle filled with transmission fluid to fill the reservoir of the pump until its full and reinsert the plug. Run the top again. Check your hoses for air bubbles. Keep doing this until you eliminate most of the air bubbles or you can't fill it up anymore. Cycle the top several times up and down.

51JZcUuuEVL._SL1280_.jpg

31tpfQE8BkL.jpg

One last word of caution. I know this seems like a pain  (and it is). Pull the bottom of your back seat out and your trunk mat out before you doing anything else. See if you have any hydraulic fluid leaking. If you do, it will collect either in the trunk or under the rear seat. If it is leaking, you will need to fix the motor, lines, or rams (whatever is leaking) before you can bleed the system again.

I know this from personal experience since I am currently going thru this with Lucy. One of the new lines to the passenger side ram won't tighten up enough to seal properly. Right now I have removed the two bolts to the rams in order to open and close the top manually so I can still enjoy the car.

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ok will do. I checked & I can see air bubbles in the line. I did take the plug out & tranny fluid ran out of the pump, so I will be prepared next time with a bowl & some rags. I did not see any fluid (besides what leaked) in the trunk. I will pull the seat & see if I have any leaks on the floor.

Thanks for the help & advice.

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17 hours ago, Federated52 said:

ok will do. I checked & I can see air bubbles in the line. I did take the plug out & tranny fluid ran out of the pump, so I will be prepared next time with a bowl & some rags. I did not see any fluid (besides what leaked) in the trunk. I will pull the seat & see if I have any leaks on the floor.

Thanks for the help & advice.

Always happy to help. Let us know what happens. Pictures are always appreciated.

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Cycled the top a few times. It stopped mid cycle two or three times. Had to play with the switch to get it to work. The more I used the up/down switch the hotter it got, to the point that I could no longer touch it. Do you think the switch is going bad, or possibly a bad connection somewhere? This convertible top sure is fighting me. HaHa, but I'm sure with you're help I will win in the end.

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It's possible but not too likely. Remember that the switch is on a 30A accessories fuse, its the one circuit in the car that is most likely to get hot - save the battery to the starter. SO the more you use it, the more likely it will get hot. Mine stopped too and I got a new switch. The new switch was a terrible fit electrically and the old one really still worked. I still have the original switch in Lucy.

Did you pull your rear seat? Did you find any fluid? Have you finished bleeding the system?

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Ok, good to know about the new switches. It does work, just have to "play" with it a little. I will try to pull the seat over the weekend & see if I have any fluid leak. I know when I put the carpet in there was no leak, but it was also dry. I did not bleed it yet, I was cleaning my oil can out, so I can use it to fill the motor.

Thanks again, you are a lot of help.

 

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I tried the top again. It goes down fine, but will not go up at all. It does not even sound like the motor is working when I push the button to go up, but I can hear it running when it goes down. The fluid in the motor seems like it is full. Do I need to keep the plug out while I cycle the top?  I could not add any fluid w/o it over flowing. I did not get a chance top pull the seat. (It's been raining all day).

Edited by Federated52

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