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stratman

Barrett-Jackson Pontiacs

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I visited my daughter, son in law, and grandsons in Chandler AZ last week. On Friday the 20th, we drove out to Scottsdale to the Barrett-Jackson auto auction. It was great, of course,but I only got to see probably half the cars there. If I go again, it will be for two days... it's that big! Anyway... I was merrily taking a bazillion pictures and then my camera wouldn't focus and then it quit altogether! Grrrr. I then used my iPhone till the battery ran out. Long story short, I only got photos of a small percentage of the cars, and a LOT of those pictures were out of focus, dang it! Lesson learned... I am through with my point-and-shoot camera and am looking at a mid price range DSLR probably Canon or Nikon (haven't pulled the trigger yet).

 

Here are all the good (i.e. in focus, lol) photos of Pontiacs. There were WAY more Pontiacs than are represented here.

 

http://s931.photobucket.com/user/us_strat/slideshow/Barrett-Jackson 2017

Edited by stratman
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Absolutely amazing Pontiacs! Good to still see a ton floating around and being restored. Stinks about the camera!

Did you bid on any? :lol:

 

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Ha! No. You have to have a note from the bank that says you're good for a minimum of $30k.

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Thanks for sharing stratman! Great pics as always! I recognize one of the cars you photographed. It is the last one, the retro looking '69 Trans Am tribute 5th Gen Camaro. That car appears to be the prototype '69 Trans Am tribute from Heide Performance Products (which is now out of business). They also produced the Daytona/Superbird kit that is on GE's Challenger! A friend of mine worked there for awhile too. I never did hear what happened to the company. The company was located in Sterling Heights Michigan. I drove past it when I worked at the GM Tech Center in Warren between 2011-2012.

I first saw this car at the 2012 Detroit Autorama. Sadly no one from HPP was around to talk to about it. It was sitting next to the Pirelli Tire tractor/trailer and the guy from Pirelli knew nothing about the car either. The last time I saw this car was this past July going home from Comerica Bank. It passed me on northbound I-75 like I was standing still (I was doing 75 mph). It got off at the Clarkston exit near the DTE Energy Music Theater (Pine Knob as us old timers still call it).

I never heard of HPP selling any of the Trans Am/Firebird kits for the 5th gen Camaro. So I don't know if there are very many (if any) out there other than the prototype. I know there are a lot more Daytona/Superbird kits since HPP built a few and Petty's Garage has built several.

Did you have a chance to try to look up Jim Mathison, Mr. PHS, while you were there? I know he was there. He is retained by Barrett-Jackson for all their auctions to authenticate all Pontiacs, especially the high end/special interest ones. He's an honorary Widetracker too. I spoke to him last year at Eric White's funeral and he told me what he does for B-J.

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Interesting story on the HPP Trans Am, thanks! I didn't meet or see Jim Mathison during the brief time I was there, but the red-on-red '69 Judge was one of three GTOs he was selling.

Edited by stratman

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1 hour ago, stratman said:

Ha! No. You have to have a note from the bank that says you're good for a minimum of $30k.

Holy &!#$! 

 

24 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Thanks for sharing stratman! Great pics as always! I recognize one of the cars you photographed. It is the last one, the retro looking '69 Trans Am tribute 5th Gen Camaro. That car appears to be the prototype '69 Trans Am tribute from Heide Performance Products (which is now out of business). They also produced the Daytona/Superbird kit that is on GE's Challenger! A friend of mine worked there for awhile too. I never did hear what happened to the company. The company was located in Sterling Heights Michigan. I drove past it when I worked at the GM Tech Center in Warren between 2011-2012.

I first saw this car at the 2012 Detroit Autorama. Sadly no one from HPP was around to talk to about it. It was sitting next to the Pirelli Tire tractor/trailer and the guy from Pirelli knew nothing about the car either. The last time I saw this car was this past July going home from Comerica Bank. It passed me on northbound I-75 like I was standing still (I was doing 75 mph). It got off at the Clarkston exit near the DTE Energy Music Theater (Pine Knob as us old timers still call it).

I never heard of HPP selling any of the Trans Am/Firebird kits for the 5th gen Camaro. So I don't know if there are very many (if any) out there other than the prototype. I know there are a lot more Daytona/Superbird kits since HPP built a few and Petty's Garage has built several.

Did you have a chance to try to look up Jim Mathison, Mr. PHS, while you were there? I know he was there. He is retained by Barrett-Jackson for all their auctions to authenticate all Pontiacs, especially the high end/special interest ones. He's an honorary Widetracker too. I spoke to him last year at Eric White's funeral and he told me what he does for B-J.

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Love this kit. Definitely wish I had the bank to get one or turn my Camaro into one. Not a fan of a lot of these but this one takes the cake.

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14 minutes ago, stratman said:

Interesting story on the HPP Trans Am, thanks! I didn't meet or see Jim Mathison during the brief time I was there, but the red-on-red '69 Judge was one of three GTOs he was selling.

In addition to PHS, Jim buys and sells classic GTOs, Firebirds and other classic muscle cars as well. I think he is trying to re-cope the money/cars he lost having to defend himself in a lawsuit brought on by GM a few years ago. He told me had to several valuable collector cars to pay for the lawyers.

12 minutes ago, Ringo64 said:

Love this kit. Definitely wish I had the bank to get one or turn my Camaro into one. Not a fan of a lot of these but this one takes the cake.

Yeah, the Daytona/Superbird kits were going for around $16-17K plus the car from HPP. I have no idea what Petty charges. So figure that is base price for a similar Trans Am kit. What I liked most about this kit was it went after the '69 Trans Am look while companies like Trans Am Depot and others went after the '77 Trans Am and GTO look. Even the Lingenfelter Trans Am went for the early 2nd gen look and not the '77 look.

Edited by Frosty

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5 minutes ago, Ringo64 said:

Holy &!#$! 

 

Love this kit. Definitely wish I had the bank to get one or turn my Camaro into one. Not a fan of a lot of these but this one takes the cake.

I think the reason this kit looks so much better, is because it represents the first generation Firebird, just as the donor Camaro likens the first gen. Too bad it's no longer produced.

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5 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Yeah, the Daytona/Superbird kits were going for around $16-17K plus the car from HPP. I have no idea what Petty charges. So figure that is base price for a similar Trans Am kit. What I liked most about this kit was it went after the '69 Trans Am look while companies like Trans Am Depot and others went after the '77 Trans Am and GTO look. Even the Lingenfelter Trans Am went for the early 2nd gen look and not the '77 look.

Yikes, yeah that is a bit more than expected. Assume that includes some upgrades to the performance too as the others and GE's?

:agreed: about the look. That is one of my favorite Trans Am combinations down to the paint/stripes.

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I think that gets you fit, finish, body, paint, interior, graphics, wheels etc. - essentially the look. I think performance upgrades like suspension, superchargers, etc. are even more. I knew they are from Trans Am Depot.

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54 minutes ago, Frosty said:

I think that gets you fit, finish, body, paint, interior, graphics, wheels etc. - essentially the look. I think performance upgrades like suspension, superchargers, etc. are even more. I knew they are from Trans Am Depot.

Yikes. Crazy amount of money :lol: 

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Yup a Trans Am Depot Trans Am is close to or over $100k when all is said and done. You have to want one bad enough to fork over that kind of scratch. Mind you the GTO and Hurst Special Edition Trans Ams are mighty cool too. I just don't think I am ready to pay Corvette money for one of these though.

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Same here, I'd rather pay for a real one or get a Z06 Corvette for that money.

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Agreed. I am not sure how well any of these Tribute cars will hold up value wise over time. Hmmm....I might put that question to Mathison.

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On 1/27/2017 at 9:33 AM, Frosty said:

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This is from Barrett-Jackson's website - results section. The car sold for $60,500.00. Here is the write-up on the car.

"Lot #1575 - Introduced at the SEMA show, HPP Cars designed the car General Motors didn't build. It has lots of horsepower with a 6.2-liter supercharged engine, 4:11 rear end and 6-speed manual transmission with Hurst shifter. MagnaFlow exhaust was added for some extra horsepower and a throaty rumble. It features a luxurious Stitchcraft custom leather interior with XM radio. The car is smog legal, including California. Custom gauges have been mounted on the A-pillar for easy viewing by the driver. Less than 1,000 original miles."

Edited by Frosty

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OK - again checking the B-J website

1. The twin '67 Firebirds in stratman's photo collection are VIN 0001 and 0002 that were showcased as being restored on Fast N' Loud at Gas Monkey Garage. The pair sold for $129,500.00.

2. The yellow '69 GTO Judge is a Ram Air IV 4-speed car - it sold for $143,000.

3. The white '70 GTO Judge is a Ram Air III car - 1 of 122 Polar White Judges built for Canada - it sold for $60,500.

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5 hours ago, Frosty said:

OK - again checking the B-J website

1. The twin '67 Firebirds in stratman's photo collection are VIN 0001 and 0002 that were showcased as being restored on Fast N' Loud at Gas Monkey Garage. The pair sold for $129,500.00.

2. The yellow '69 GTO Judge is a Ram Air IV 4-speed car - it sold for $143,000.

3. The white '70 GTO Judge is a Ram Air III car - 1 of 122 Polar White Judges built for Canada - it sold for $60,500.

 

Good stuff, Frosty! Thanks! 

I forgot to put this Judge and a Trans Am in my slideshow, they are in there now. The sign said this is a 1 of 1 '69 Judge convertible- the only one built that is triple green. What does your information say about it? 

 

IMG_0790_zpswnpsdauc.jpg

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Frosty, if I can, what did you do at the tech center? I doubt that our paths crossed, but you never know. I was at the tech center many many times over the last 25 years for the different projects I was involved with for my company. The last time was the end of “15” just before I retired.

Love the Bird too!

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Ok stratman - some more B-J results.

Picture #5, the Fat GTO with the blower through the hood - Lot 1053 - sold for only $33,000. Now what makes this car unique is this is a 2003 GTO!  Remember Pontiac didn't start selling the new GTOs until the 2004 model year. The VIN says "experimental" meaning this car is not at all street legal. and it can not be titled It is technically a prototype Here is the B-J write-up.

"Lot #1053 - Mark Jones, Owner of Fat57 Customs of Sydney Australia is one of the most important figures in the Australian Custom Car Scene. Mark and his two sons Beauman and Harley have built an amazing and truly diverse range of custom cars. This 2003 GTO is just a sample of such. In a joint partnership with AC Delco, Pioneer and Pontiac, Mark was chosen to receive a Proto-Type pre-production Experimental GTO before ever released to the public, to see what Australia's #1 Custom Car Builder could do with it. The result is FAT GTO. A Modern Muscle car to the Extreme. Just a few features are Electronic Fuel Injected Blown 427 Big Block, Custom Reverse Exhaust System, Shock Wave Air Ride System, Custom Leather Interior, Outrageous Audio and Video System by Pioneer, One off Custom Tires and Wheel by Intro, 4 wheel disc brakes. **NOT STREET LEGAL. SOLD ON BILL OF SALE**"

Pictures #15-17, Chris Jacobs did a little walk through of this custom '58 Star Chief with the LS motor during the B-J telecast.

Your lime green '69 Judge convertible did very well. It sold for $170,500.00. Here is the B-J write up. It's a one-of-one car. Here is the B-J write-up: "Lot #1439 - Originally built at the Baltimore Plant, this 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge convertible was shipped to Bowan McLean Motorcar Company in Vancouver, BC, on April 22, 1969. It's equipped with 17 factory-installed options and is powered by its confirmed original born-with 400/366hp Ram Air III matching-numbers engine. This 1969 GTO Judge #0503 was owned first in British Columbia, Canada (by its original purchaser new) where it remained until 2004 (35 years of ownership). In 2004 GTO #0503 would be auctioned off to its third owner in Atlanta, GA. This GTO has been the recipient of a full body-off restoration. It qualified, was accepted and entered into Cobble Beach Concours d'Elegance 2016. First Place ribbon and trophy from concours (both will be included with vehicle sale). This 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge #0503 includes PHS paperwork, copy of GM Build Sheet and GM Vintage Vehicle Historical Society Paperwork. It is one of 108 1969 GTO Judge convertibles built for worldwide production in '69 and one of 29 with automatic transmission. This is also the only triple-green GTO Judge convertible ever built."

The 1976 Trans Am sold for $72,600 - its from the Charlie Thomas collection. It's an original true survivor car too. No restoration on this car.

Now here is a car that I am surprised you didn't see or photograph, it is a true genuine GM prototype car.  I am a little surprised to see it up for sale since I've seen it on the showfield of the Widetrackers Dustoff before John Sawruck passed away. So I've seen this car up close.

Its the 1985 Pontiac Trans Am Kammback! These pictures are from B-J website. it sold for $44,000. 

200963_Front_3-4_Web.jpg.b6b8c01869299eeda3a37b4b38140ee1.jpg200963_Rear_3-4_Web.jpg.7c39ab00652a44633f8b64d492987fd1.jpg200963_Side_Profile_Web.jpg.351bd48559caf46234720696042217ba.jpg

Lot #1245 - This is a genuine former General Motors test-platform mule, VIN 0000EX4796, equipped with G-code HO V8 with 5-speed manual transmission, factory air, power steering, power brakes, power windows, power door locks, cruise, tilt, AM/FM stereo cassette, glass T-tops and Pontiac T/A mag wheels. It has been extensively shown and promoted at auto shows as well as in magazines. EX4796 was put into service as a Pace Car for the PPG and IMSA Race Series for 1985 with a roof-mount light bar and two-way communications equipment. The Kammback Concept failed to advance after 1985; however, this car was stored at GM for 13 years in the Pontiac Engineering Car Collection until a local Detroit-area Pontiac dealer and collector, John McMullen, was able to acquire it. Experimental cars normally go to the crusher, but this one, by the good graces of Pontiac, escaped and has survived. While in the McMullen Collection, this car was professionally restored in meticulous detail, right down to the undercarriage white floor pans, after which it was sold to the John O'Quinn Collection in 2007. The white exterior is graced by Dove Gray leather interior trim and is in outstanding condition, as is the engine compartment and undercarriage. The Kammback Concept has been editorialized by Motor Trend magazine with a cover and multi-page spread in June 1977 and August 1985. A 3-ring binder documents this car's history in the McMullen Collection, the John O'Quinn Collection and Scott Tiemann's Supercar Specialties. Also included is a letter from Pontiac Historical Services (PHS) that further documents this car, its story and history. Recent credits include 2015 Concours d'Elegance of America and the November 2015 Muscle Car and Corvette National Show in Chicago. **SOLD ON BILL OF SALE**

As a side note, John McMullen is another honorary Widetracker. He was a Pontiac dealer in Troy Michigan for many years and he had quite an extensive car collection at one time. He has sold a lot of it, but he still has several car, especially electric vehicles! John lives about 10 miles from me in Lapeer Michigan.

17 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Frosty, if I can, what did you do at the tech center? I doubt that our paths crossed, but you never know. I was at the tech center many many times over the last 25 years for the different projects I was involved with for my company. The last time was the end of “15” just before I retired.

Love the Bird too!

Last Indian, I worked for GM IS&S in Global Operations for about 10.5 months. I worked in the basement of the Systems Engineering Building, next the data center that was there, before they built the new behind the old Cadillac building. I was there from September 2011 to July 2012. I had been to the Tech Center prior to that - on and off - for occasional meetings, but that was the only time I worked there full time.

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4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Ok stratman - some more B-J results.

Picture #5, the Fat GTO with the blower through the hood - Lot 1053 - sold for only $33,000. Now what makes this car unique is this is a 2003 GTO!  Remember Pontiac didn't start selling the new GTOs until the 2004 model year. The VIN says "experimental" meaning this car is not at all street legal. and it can not be titled It is technically a prototype Here is the B-J write-up.

"Lot #1053 - Mark Jones, Owner of Fat57 Customs of Sydney Australia is one of the most important figures in the Australian Custom Car Scene. Mark and his two sons Beauman and Harley have built an amazing and truly diverse range of custom cars. This 2003 GTO is just a sample of such. In a joint partnership with AC Delco, Pioneer and Pontiac, Mark was chosen to receive a Proto-Type pre-production Experimental GTO before ever released to the public, to see what Australia's #1 Custom Car Builder could do with it. The result is FAT GTO. A Modern Muscle car to the Extreme. Just a few features are Electronic Fuel Injected Blown 427 Big Block, Custom Reverse Exhaust System, Shock Wave Air Ride System, Custom Leather Interior, Outrageous Audio and Video System by Pioneer, One off Custom Tires and Wheel by Intro, 4 wheel disc brakes. **NOT STREET LEGAL. SOLD ON BILL OF SALE**"

Pictures #15-17, Chris Jacobs did a little walk through of this custom '58 Star Chief with the LS motor during the B-J telecast.

Your lime green '69 Judge convertible did very well. It sold for $170,500.00. Here is the B-J write up. It's a one-of-one car. Here is the B-J write-up: "Lot #1439 - Originally built at the Baltimore Plant, this 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge convertible was shipped to Bowan McLean Motorcar Company in Vancouver, BC, on April 22, 1969. It's equipped with 17 factory-installed options and is powered by its confirmed original born-with 400/366hp Ram Air III matching-numbers engine. This 1969 GTO Judge #0503 was owned first in British Columbia, Canada (by its original purchaser new) where it remained until 2004 (35 years of ownership). In 2004 GTO #0503 would be auctioned off to its third owner in Atlanta, GA. This GTO has been the recipient of a full body-off restoration. It qualified, was accepted and entered into Cobble Beach Concours d'Elegance 2016. First Place ribbon and trophy from concours (both will be included with vehicle sale). This 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge #0503 includes PHS paperwork, copy of GM Build Sheet and GM Vintage Vehicle Historical Society Paperwork. It is one of 108 1969 GTO Judge convertibles built for worldwide production in '69 and one of 29 with automatic transmission. This is also the only triple-green GTO Judge convertible ever built."

The 1976 Trans Am sold for $72,600 - its from the Charlie Thomas collection. It's an original true survivor car too. No restoration on this car.

Now here is a car that I am surprised you didn't see or photograph, it is a true genuine GM prototype car.  I am a little surprised to see it up for sale since I've seen it on the showfield of the Widetrackers Dustoff before John Sawruck passed away. So I've seen this car up close.

Its the 1985 Pontiac Trans Am Kammback! These pictures are from B-J website. it sold for $44,000. 

200963_Front_3-4_Web.jpg.b6b8c01869299eeda3a37b4b38140ee1.jpg200963_Rear_3-4_Web.jpg.7c39ab00652a44633f8b64d492987fd1.jpg200963_Side_Profile_Web.jpg.351bd48559caf46234720696042217ba.jpg

Lot #1245 - This is a genuine former General Motors test-platform mule, VIN 0000EX4796, equipped with G-code HO V8 with 5-speed manual transmission, factory air, power steering, power brakes, power windows, power door locks, cruise, tilt, AM/FM stereo cassette, glass T-tops and Pontiac T/A mag wheels. It has been extensively shown and promoted at auto shows as well as in magazines. EX4796 was put into service as a Pace Car for the PPG and IMSA Race Series for 1985 with a roof-mount light bar and two-way communications equipment. The Kammback Concept failed to advance after 1985; however, this car was stored at GM for 13 years in the Pontiac Engineering Car Collection until a local Detroit-area Pontiac dealer and collector, John McMullen, was able to acquire it. Experimental cars normally go to the crusher, but this one, by the good graces of Pontiac, escaped and has survived. While in the McMullen Collection, this car was professionally restored in meticulous detail, right down to the undercarriage white floor pans, after which it was sold to the John O'Quinn Collection in 2007. The white exterior is graced by Dove Gray leather interior trim and is in outstanding condition, as is the engine compartment and undercarriage. The Kammback Concept has been editorialized by Motor Trend magazine with a cover and multi-page spread in June 1977 and August 1985. A 3-ring binder documents this car's history in the McMullen Collection, the John O'Quinn Collection and Scott Tiemann's Supercar Specialties. Also included is a letter from Pontiac Historical Services (PHS) that further documents this car, its story and history. Recent credits include 2015 Concours d'Elegance of America and the November 2015 Muscle Car and Corvette National Show in Chicago. **SOLD ON BILL OF SALE**

As a side note, John McMullen is another honorary Widetracker. He was a Pontiac dealer in Troy Michigan for many years and he had quite an extensive car collection at one time. He has sold a lot of it, but he still has several car, especially electric vehicles! John lives about 10 miles from me in Lapeer Michigan.

Last Indian, I worked for GM IS&S in Global Operations for about 10.5 months. I worked in the basement of the Systems Engineering Building, next the data center that was there, before they built the new behind the old Cadillac building. I was there from September 2011 to July 2012. I had been to the Tech Center prior to that - on and off - for occasional meetings, but that was the only time I worked there full time.

Great stuff as usual, Frosty!

That's strong money for a Judge. I think there was a triple white '71 Judge convertible that sold last year or so for more money.

You know if I had seen that Trams Am wagon, I most certainly would have snapped a pic! Cool car. If I go again I will definitely spend two days there so I can see everything.

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I know I would, the memorabilia is probably worth a half day by itself.

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I figured our paths hadn't crossed, but you never know. I always worked with the platform guys or else the drivetrain guys. 

Thanks though!

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On 1/31/2017 at 5:14 PM, Last Indian said:

I figured our paths hadn't crossed, but you never know. I always worked with the platform guys or else the drivetrain guys. 

Thanks though!

Prior to working in Warren, I spent my early years at AC Spark Plug and later Delco Electronics in Flint before moving over to GM Powertrain in Flint and later Pontiac when Buick City closed.

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Thanks for the short history Frosty! Sounds like you've gotten to change things up a bit. Which can keep things interesting and fun if you have to work to make a living. I was fortunate in my employment to have gotten to do a great many things that were well of the beaten path of a normal career and I will always be thankful!

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Thanks, mind you a lot of that change was not 100% my choice.

You will have to share your story with me sometime. I am always interested to know what my fellow car friends have done or do for a living.

Edited by Frosty

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