Last Indian

15 minutes ago, JRW said:

 

Welcome fellow Buckeye, Cardinal or Carnation whichever you choice!

Might help, some?

Cover & splitter complete fit tested! Now ready for primer.

Cooler brackets, cooler, NACA duct air intake done.

cover on with inlet hose attached

Love it Mike! Looks to all be coming together! Like Frosty said, you got to be getting excited to put it on the road! Can’t wait!

12 hours ago, Fitzy said:

Thanks JUSTA6, I know I don't need permission from anyone - I might like leopard skin headliner for example, but I was just chasing opinions. You needn't worry - my old girl will NEVER be anywhere near show condition. I want it 'as is' because it's honest and I like the battle weary look. Also, when (if ever) I get her on the road, our driving time together will be brief and sporadic, so no need for me to go apeshit (can I say that?) on front discs and real seatbelts. But...I want to remain as faithful to the original designer's brief as possible, hence the question re headlining.

Still...little stars? How cool is that? Ames haven't responded yet. They probably think I'm insane and have relegated my enquiry to the work experience kid!

Fitzy, I think JustA & Frosty’s answer was dead on! I love cars, I have always appreciated an original car whether it was concourse, survivor or just original, but used. But for me I have never been able to leave a car alone, because the OEM’s builds a car for the masses, to appeal to the basic public Who will like the cars design, buy the car and then buy an other one 3 to 5 years later! These same folks also have no interest in the car beyond initial looks! Just drive it and than after 6 months the car will be lucky to get washed once a month. 

A concourse car is hard to enjoy for a true driving enthusiast, to much invested to risk. Most just use them as an investment. I point to Carrol Shelby! He took great British steel and some American ingenuity & muscle (427cid) and history speaks for itself.

So I too say do whatever pleases you! If you do it one way and don’t like it, change it, try it again till you get it JustA the way you like it!

8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Fitzy, my rant was mainly sarcasm and humor, save the EV comments. As JUSTA said, he and I live in Michigan, home to Pontiac and General Motors and so much more. So we are definitely passionate about cars - Pontiacs in particular.

I grew up in Flint, Michigan, just a little north of Pontiac. It was the birthplace of GM. GM was incorporated in Flint by Billy Durant. We were home to Buick Motor Division, AC Spark Plug Division, GM Parts Division/Service Parts Operation (now called Customer Care and Aftersales - WTF?). We also had the Flint V8 Engine plant (it made the first production Chevy small block), Flint Truck Assembly, "Chevy in the Hole" Chevy Assembly Plant - which made Chevrolet sedans from the 40s to 70s (including the '50 millionth GM car' - a special gold '55 Chevy), a Turnstedt Division plant (chrome potmetal and trim parts), Flint Metal Fabricating (stamp steel parts - hoods, fenders, core supports, etc.). 

Today, most of this is all gone thanks to GM's decades of downsizing. Buick-gone. AC-gone. Turnstedt-gone. Chevy in the Hole-gone. Flint V8-gone. GMPD-greatly reduced. Flint Truck Assembly - still running. Flint Metal Fab-still running but greatly reduced. One new plant was built 15 years ago - Flint Engine South - it builds the High Feature V6 and it use to produce the Volt/Ampere 4-cylinder engine/generator. 

At one time, Flint had over 50,000 auto workers. Now we have closer to 5,000. The local economy has declined along with the auto industry. So I can sympathize with the loss of Holden.

Look at how GM has shrunk in the last decade. Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, and Hummer are gone (although Hummer will be coming back as a model under GMC in 2021 -  as an electric pickup), Holden shutdown, Opel/Vauxhall - sold to Peugeot, GM of India, Venezuela, and South African operations shutdown (for different reasons). GM Daewoo on the brink of being shutdown if they didn't get union concessions two years ago. Last year GM laid off nearly 3000+ engineers/salaried employees in the US - most of them in traditional car design roles (GM is transforming themselves into a "technology company" according to CEO Mary Barra). GM was once the largest automaker in the world, now I think they are ranked 5th.

The Lemans (e.g. the Daewoo POS) you drove had a record number of recalls on it. I think it had 6 recalls in the US during its production run. It damaged the name of a legendary Pontiac mark, the same way the Geo/Chevy "Nova" did in the 90s for Chevrolet.

So I accept your "nuts" comment as a compliment.

9 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Was sorry to hear about  Holden.  That was a base for the last gasp G8, an awesome ride!   The Lemans you so fondly spoke of was an import here.  GMs shot at building cars in the Asian market.  The only reason to explain the trade gap in the automotive world, was GM cars were too big for their roads.  Pontiac also bedded down with YOTA power in Vibes. (another lower my head moment)  Owners either loved or hated...NO middle ground.  Like the Lemans, parts were stupid expensive.

The industry as a whole has made great strides in emissions and MPG.  While the number of cars on the road is off the charts compared to 30-40 years ago.  We are still putting out close to the same emissions levels overall.   For my $$$ the biggest single improvement is the computer controlled fuel injection.  Maximizing every drop of fuel for near complete burn.  Electric cars (In my opinion) cause many more problems than they are solving.  They are NOT as eco friendly as we are led to believe.   Yes someday the technology will be there to make it work as advertised.  Tesla, GM with the Volt/Bolt are making some great looking cars.  That's a start.  Wanna make a real difference in our planet?  Figure out a way to make plastic 100% recyclable and hold everybody to it.    

Fitzy, I couldn’t agree more with my friends about the love of cars, of Pontiac, of Detroit!! They are not that far from me and I grew up 55 miles from Cleveland Ohio, which was in the beginning of the auto industry a huge component. I also grew up 4 miles from Geneva Ohio, the birthplace of Oldsmobile!

I couldn’t have said what JustA said any better! While I’m a bit older and I saw the change coming a shade sooner! Here in the states I could never understand it! To me they were and still are junk! I’ve worked on them, I’ve tested them and I’ve driven them for testing! So for me it’s not an opinion it’s fact. What JustA said about throw away cars so true! Still for me it’s more disturbing than that! I have no ill will towards these countries or their people, but one did attack us and a few of the others cost tens of thousands of American lives. I was drafted during the TET offensive in Nam, but was given 2H classification because of a major football injury in high school. Later on I could not wrap my head around how men who hard fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam turn around and buy these cars while their brothers were being laid off! Than worst of all, to have the very government that did all of this give the breaks through unfair trade laws to these very same countries; unforgivable! 
 

So you see for me it’s about honor and allegiance! I never felt that way about the Brits, or Australians or any of the other allies! I never felt like the built junk either!  

16 hours ago, Fitzy said:

You guys are nuts! You probably should get used to EVs & Hybrids - anyway, let THEM make a statement whilst you guzzle precious fuel. There's no shame driving something economical & efficient as your daily, just so long as you can start the Olde Girl on the weekend and atone for your sins of being environmentally conscious.

I drive a Japper as a daily and also have a mountain bike, but nothing comes close to that V8 rumble - nothing sounds like a V8, only a V8. Even a 40's Tatra with that aircooled rear mounted V8 sounds the business. Check YouTube for a clip.

22 minutes ago, JUSTA6 said:

Fitzy all's good buddy.  We are JUSTA joking ...to a point.  As you have needs that require fuel efficient vehicles, far more than we do.  Pontiac is more than Justa vehicle manufacturer to us. It represents a way of life.  My Dad worked for Pontiac Motors and I was lucky enough to be hired into Pontiac Motors here in Pontiac Mich,  The roots of everything Pontiac.  After a career of watching the Asian car companys abuse our economy with unfair trade practices and dumping basically disposable cars (4-5 years and most were in junkyards) there is still a terrible taste left in my mouth towards imports.  To make matters worse, Pontiac is now a memory and imports (no matter how much they have improved quality)  are a large portion of the vehicles on the road today. Most claiming to be built in the USA, but they are simply assembled here.  There are thousands of small shops required to build cars, from nuts N bolts to plastics, electronics ect.  THAT is American made.  Sadly even our companys now put cheep trash parts into our cars.  Air Bags.....Nuff said.  The disrespect came from the generation behind me,  somehow overlooking the companys that put the roof over their head, food in the mouth, paid for their educations and the list goes on N on.   There are 4 Pontiac's in my family tribe and 2 Ford daily drivers.  SUV and Ranger truck.  All 3 of my adult kids always have and always will respect American automotive community even though they are making it harder all the time.  Nothin better than spending an afternoon at a carshow with my family and the Pontiac's.

Let me Justa say this about that! 
In the Middle Ages the educated believed the the plague was caused by witches! Than as more and more died the scientists of the time believed finally it was the rats! Ultimately it was the fact that basically they were all just a bunch of filthy pigs that infected themselves by their filth that breezed fleas that carried the disease. We now have Lyme disease that has far reaching affects that the educated deny. So even though there is more evidence that points to man having very little impact on the co2 impact to the planet, I know I believe the educated!!😁 

On 2/24/2020 at 6:23 PM, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

Would like to possibly answer your question if I can....Could you be more specific on exactly what it is you're looking for..??

Finding TDC..advance....retard...total timing..settings.. dwell...Does it still have the stock cam...ETC..

TLBT

1 hour ago, Tom DiMaggio said:

Sorry I don't know I think it is a stock cam I'm still researching everything all cylinders have between 112-120 compression it just doesn't have the power I think it should have

Tom, what Two Lane ask is relevant and those readings are adequate, but not great! The fact that you have that much variation between cylinders indicates a deficiency somewhere. I would recommend you do a leak down test! This will start to help you determine if it’s valves, seals or rings. So for right now I think you need to answer those questions first. Once those are answered let us know what you discovered. We can than help you with further steps forward.

13 hours ago, Frosty said:

Danny - are you asking how many ccs a stock 428 piston is up against a flat plate at TDC or how many ccs a 428 cylinder head is?

If it is the latter, then Sprint6 and Last Indians answers are correct.

Danny if you are asking for the former, as Frosty has described and you have a piston available the measurement is quite easy. Take a piece of 1/4 inch polycarbonate sheet large enough to cover the top of the piston, basically a flat plate. Ou can use other materials, but the polycarbonate allows you to see any air that’s trapped. Hold the polycarbonate to the piston with a couple of C clamps and see where the most logical place is to drill a 1/8 diameter through hole. Mark that spot, remove the plate, drill the hole and remount the plate. Take a graduated cc syringe fill it with water. Fill the space between the plate and piston with the water till all the air is gone. Deduct that amount from what the total volume was in the syringe and that’s the piston top cc volume. You may have to practice with it a little to get the technique down.

6 hours ago, DANNYGOTE said:

😄 hi   I am new here .. my nickname on here is dannygote so H E L L O  every body .. got a  ? I cannot find how many cc's  in the piston top of a stock 428 Pontiac piston.. does any body know or know how I can find out ? I have tried to find it on the internet [ spent hours ] and I still haven't foud out.. if any body can help me out  I really will appreciate it …. thanx === dannygote

If it’s stock all the 428 heads were 72cc.

14 hours ago, indymanjoe said:

Anyone price out a new battery for an electric car yet? what happens to the old one? Iv'e read anywhere between 8-12k for a new battery installed. And thats at 100k miles. I hope more people buy electric maybe the price of gas will go cheaper LOL  But of course the cost of my electric bill will go through the roof..Solar is a viable option for lights in the home but some gov't subsidized failure will need more tax money to fund the bailout as usual.

One of the single reasons the establishment gets away with their hype about carbon emissions is simply this! It is one of the most complexed occurrences on earth with so many variables they can easily spoon feed the knowledge-less public what they wish! For example Mt. Etna in Italy produces 5.8 million tons of carbon dioxide a year. There are approximately 6000 volcanoes on earth that they know of, but it’s estimated that it’s closer to 10,000 because of ones that can’t be found at the deepest areas of the oceans. It is also known that mountain ranges not only absorb co2, but also release it at their peaks. Likewise a large wind turbine uses hundreds of gallons of oil in their gear box which must be changed usually twice a year. Their bodies use a lot of fiberglass and their blades are entirely made of fiberglass, which comes from crude oil and there is more beyond that, big carbon footprint! 

Solar? Just as bad! The snake oil salesmen only tells you want he thinks will make you go away feeling it’s a better choice! Like well there is a little negative hear, but it’s still way better than petroleum! Well guess what? It’s not! At best; it’s a trade off! There are some nasty chemical processes associated with making those panels, but they lie about it. Kind of like they did with coal mining and black lung. The panels themselves have been found to cause a large increase in temperatures in and around the areas where they are located. Even more than wind turbines do in their area! Yes wind turbines cause localized warming because of how they stir the air at ground level. 

I could go on, but you get the point. One last comment! Not to get all biblical, but Revelations 6.6 says this! Protect the oil & wine! There is a reason for that. Those two specific things are God given and meant to be used for men’s benefit and both can be used as readily as not for energy. Oil lamps date back to ancient Babylon and it is know that wine was refined down to be alcohol! Fuel!
 

Think of it this way! It’s harder to control the bulk of humanity with multiple sources of energy. With one source of energy as your only option that becomes much easier!

2 hours ago, 360Rocket said:

Wow I love this detailed response and your help. My width measurements were from Outer sidewalk to outer sidewalk. We’re you measuring from the bare hubs? Also I believe that the rear 12 bolt axle is from a 67 GTO and I know I went to swap axles from a 68 Chevelle 12 bolt the Chevelle axles were longer by over an inch each. I’ll check air pressures as well. Do you know the widest tire size I can go with in the rear by chance? I’ll get you the backspacing when I get back home. Thanks for your assistance. 

Well when I measure for tire alignment I usually use a a good wide stiff tape measure. I go to the back and front tires, because with FWD’s you align both front and rear, I look to see what and where the limiting height restriction is for a straight across measurement is. I measure that height and than measure both sets of tires at that height, at the back and the front of the tire. I use the hook part of the tape measure and get a hold on the last tread edge, closest to the outside edge, but not the outside edge of the tire, but the last tread edge. I measure from that edge to the mating edge at the other tire, but overall it doesn’t really matter as long as you have a dependable location to attach to that can be matched up on the other side & front and back as well as front and rear tires, all the same location. This not only gives you toe in, but if you know your front and back track difference between the front track and rear track, which in your case should be 1”. Then you’ll know you’re where you should be. If you have changed the front or rear track and want to check it then you need to make a setup that butts to the outside of each tire at again the highest point you can measure across from one tire to the other. Make that measurement and that’s the track width.

Also meant to mention that increasing the air pressure in a shorter sidewall tire, obviously within reason, will give a better ride.

Also, if you have a two foot level, have the wheels pointed straight, place the level vertically against each front tire, note where the bubble is and let me know. That disparity can really impact handling.

3 hours ago, 360Rocket said:

Frosty I just had an alignment put on it before the tires and wheels went on These are Khumo Ecsta tires 255/45/17. I'm going to swap them for NITTOS since these tires are old. Gonna go with a taller and wider tire in the back as well and then drop the rear back down with a set of 2" lowering springs. I just recently got back on FACEBOOK thanks to work and I have been killing it on Pontiac Parts in the MARKETPLACE.

360, I think you have several things going on! So I would like to help you step through it before you spend more money to get something less than you could actually have. 

First of all if you kept offsets the same as they were before as you state than something is wrong! The original track width for the car was 61” front track, 60” for the rear track. That 1” difference should still be the same! The only things that would change it are offset, different tire size or toe in! So if tire size is the same front and rear and the same as before, remeasure the front track again, but measure the front of the front tires and then the back of the front tires! If that number is more than a 1/8 to 1/4 inch that is part of the problem.

Also by going to a different size rim, 17” vs 15”, this can change the camber drastically, which in turn changes the caster. Also a shorter sidewall tire actually requires more air pressure than a larger sidewall tire of comparable size. This may sound wrong, but it’s not! Think of it this way, old style bike tires use less air pressure than an English bike! The English bike uses almost twice as much! So in the new 17” tires you should be running at least 36 psi in the rear tires and 37 psi in the front and that should be done with the tire is cold, not driven yet, at 70 degrees! Add or detract 1 psi for every 10 degrees of temperature above or below 70 degrees.

Next tire compounds make a huge difference in ride, both handling and stiffness. Everybody has their own preference, so that’s a personal choice. You might try to find out what the compounds are that are in the Khumo or Nittos, but as a rule neither one of them use the friendliest of compounds.

2 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:

Yo rocket.....Lookin soooo sweet your makin my teeth hurt.  Good to hear from ya, been awhile.

Copy that! Really! Great to hear from you as JustA said! 

Moving forward with the layout of the tranny cooler, as well as the NACA duct leg of the ram air, I think this will work out quite well! 

For the tranny cooler mount, it’s a very solid mount, but doesn’t come in contact the ac condenser, which I really dislike! When they attach an add on cooler by tie wraps pulled through the radiator/condenser, you’re just asking for trouble! The braided lines will attach fairly easily and there will be very good air flow. These cars have a divided air flow setup. The lower air inlets, below the upper grilles, feed the whole surface area of the condenser/radiator, but in a graduated throat, that predominantly feeds the largest amount of air to the lower half of that area. While increasing the velocity of the air the high up the throat it goes. Conversely the upper grilles have a direct high flow, while moving of course, impact on the upper surface area. As you all know, this setup takes the bottom radiator tranny cooer line and breaks it. The out line is than diverted to the cooler in and the out cooler line is taken back to the tranny. I still have quite a lot to do here yet. I need to get an adaptor for the return line out of the radiator to the cooler and then an adaptor to mate up to the tranny. Plus clean an repaint the lower end of the radiator framework and the new cooler bracket as well.

The NACA duct ram air setup is nearly complete now and appears there will be no issues with hooking it up or disassembly when needing to do a front cover removal.
 

7 hours ago, Frosty said:

My wife just texted me during lunch. Her blood test results came in -  stating she is post-menopausal. So there is no clinical need for chemo at all.

Again, I appreciate all the support and well wishes from everyone! It is wonderful and more than a bit humbling to know all the support that I have from this group. I truly don't take you friendship for granted. Bless you and thank you.

That is the greatest news buddy!! Somethings a prayer is answered simply by pushing us in the right direction. I reserve that belief here as your wife’s decision to get a second opinion! None the less we will continue to pray for the best outcome for the future!

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

Right now staying local for most of the summer. I might get to Charleston WV I taonce or twice this summer. My wife was determined to have breast cancer. We caught it very early and her prognosis is very good but she will still be going through chemo therapy and radiation treatments this winter and spring. So I will be staying close to home for that period of time for sure.

The other limiting factor is Lucy. She had a catastrophic failure last fall. I need to tear a good chunk of her apart to see if the heater core was damaged. So out comes most of the interior to get to it. So my cruise season maybe limited that way too.

Frosty I’m so sorry! I will keep your wife, you and your whole family in my prayers! 

Great pics as usual! Thanks Frosty! I was watching when Hendricks bought the Vett, Gordon on one side and I wasn’t sure who the other guy was. If they said I missed it. I guess when you have that much money you pay what you want to get what you want!

Got the splitter detailed out! Next I need to bolt it up under the cover to check the fit.

Welcome Thom, good luck with your goal, any of the muscle car goats are a great choice.

Well finally ordered and received the tranny cooler to add to the Indian. When I can get the temp down in the hot weather on the Dextron 4 this trans is a whole different animal. So I think this should do the trick! The cooler produces 37,000 btu of heat extraction per hour. Now the next problem is finding fittings that will make this a clean flowing installation of an #6 fittings that mate the radiator & trans.

16 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

I've been trying to find replacement windshield wipers for my 1997 Firebird.....

Have checked every Auto parts store in the area...To no avail...Everyplace says they are not in stock anywhere in their network....And they can't  get them...The 1998 to 2002  wipers are readily available but not 1993 to 1997..The 98 to 02 are standard 24 inch wipers whereas the 93 to 97 are 24 inch with a reverse J hook design which is exactly opposite of the 98 to 02....And they will not work on either of my cars..(96 and 97 ) Any ideas on where to source a couple of sets..

Have thought about just getting the 98 to 02s and swapping the blades..(refills)..but I really don't want too do that if I can avoid it...

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks..TLBT

Two lane, several things here. First can you show pictures of the wiper arm, the wiper insert and the wiper blade? As that might help.

Additionally these things come to mind. Replacement blades are quite easy to put in, so are the wiper inserts bad, this is the part the actual rubber blade installs into? Are the wiper arms bad? If not I would tend to take that path. If not that and the wiper inserts are bad than there are a couple of other ways to go. One if you wish to keep the bird original than see if you can find what you need at a bone yard, make it as new as possible than store it. You should be able to use the parts from a Camaro of the same year if you can’t find a bird. If you can get more than one set to make new you’ll have one to use and one to store. 

If you can only find one than this other thought I have may work. See if the wiper spline on the other year birds are the same as your year, most likely they are. If so change out the whole assembly, arm, wiper insert and blade. Then keep the the OEM rebuilt units as backups for when you want them.

On 2/4/2020 at 1:38 PM, Ted Feight said:

In 1967 I had a 1966 Pontiac Catalina Convertible, silver with a black top. I came home from working in Chicago for 3 months to find a draft notice to report the next day. I had to give the car back to the dealer, which was allowed in that day. After an all expense paid trip to the far east I came home and bought a 69 Camaro.  I wanted a 67 Vette, but was talked out of it. I finally bought the 67 Vette in 1984, but never found a 66 Catalina that I liked.

Then while traveling to see a client on M-55 I saw the nose of a Catalina sticking out of a small garage. After seeing the client in Lake City I stopped at the house with the Catalina Convertible and talked for hours with the owner.  He was an older man who did not get a lot of visitors. We talked about the car, his clocks, watches and life. I told him if he ever wanted to sell the car I would like first rights. I stopped and talked to him when I was going through from time to time.

Then last fall his daughter called and said her Father (Barry Snyder) had dies. Did I remember him. I told her yes and I was very sorry to hear he died. She said he left a note telling her that she should give me first chance to buy the car and he had set the price. I drove over that week and looked it over.  The price was fair, not high or low. So I came back the next week and picked it up. I named the car Barry.

From what I can tell it had set in the garage for the last 10 years.  Before that Barry basically loved taking it to shows. With the help of Frosty and a few of you on the forum I am making the car my own, by making a few needed changes. Hopefully, I will start showing the car in the early part of the summer. 

God Bless!

I agree with 74Espirit, great story, but even better, you friended someone who clearly needed and appreciated it! That’s why he remembered you! That was truly a wonderful gift to to give him! That to me is the bigger story!