Jump to content
Forums Gone... but not forgotten!
Pontiac of the Month

FBIRD69's 1969 Firebird

2024 March
of the Month

Last Indian

Members
  • Posts

    1,635
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    127

Posts posted by Last Indian

  1. 1 minute ago, JUSTA6 said:

    We have the 1st black wanna be women V Pres.  Can't figure out the Indian or Asian background she's most ashamed of.  And now she can't claim to be the 1st women V Pres because IT's neutral gender.  :picard:

    I hear ya! I’m really bummed because I JustA saw that Mr Potato Head is no more! Real! Now it Potato Head neutral gender! No kidding!

    • Sad 1
  2. 17 minutes ago, JUSTA6 said:

    We have already had our 2nd stimulus checks.   Same here, you can't buy appliances,  water heaters are a huge problem.  Replace a broken fridge??? Not gonna happen.  Even floor models are gone.  Our government is more worried about letting cross dressing fags use women's bathrooms, play on the girls sports teams, use the women's locker room and showers.  

    Copy that times two buddy! Don’t forget letting anybody in to the county JustA because they want to! No waiting! JustA come on in! Drug dealers, rapist, murderers, you name it! No I.D. Required! 

    • Sad 2
  3. Voltage drop is just one test, but there are so many test you can run the real question is which test for what problem! The voltage drop you show in the video for starting for example really is inconsequential in the big picture of starting. More relevant battery cranking voltage drop! Typical battery cranking voltage drop on starting with a good battery will be from 12.6, for a well charged battery, down to 10. 2 to 10.4 volts. Anything lower than that means there are issues with the system, either on the plus side or the negative side. Now when you get into the less power consuming components like gages, heater, lights, etc.. Those need checked differently, but again newer cars are a whole different animal in what you check and how! For example the Indian (2000 Grand Prix) has five 12 volt supply wires to the ignition switch! But these 12 volt wires that supply the switch once inside the switch is divided into 20 small finger contact tumblers that in turn distributes that power to smaller wires that supply 12 volts to things like the heater, radio, wipers, gages, etc! If you mistakenly leave an accessory on like the radio, heater, etc. this, through repeated occurrences causes the finger contacts to burn, like a set of points! When this happens you can go from 12 volts to 1 volt! So a voltage drop at a component that doesn’t work or doesn’t work properly does little good!

  4. 2 hours ago, Tom said:

    There is a vent cap next to where the fuel goes in. I took it off and ordered a new one. It was probably clogged. 

    More than likely the vent cap is the issue! Usually what you described is actually a vacuum, not pressure, but it happens so fast when you loosen the cap it seems like pressure. 

    • Like 1
  5. 8 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

    yip, your dead right JustA, when i had the sump off i was feeling pretty happy with the condition of everything, not so now that i have seen whats in the top...

    compression test will be the next job and that will point me in the direction i need to go...

    thing is i have had her running and she ran well.

    But what a mess in the top!!! 

    Kiwi, the sludge that you described and showed is typical of short run cycles! This type of sludge is made up of a heavy emulsion of water condensate and engine oil vapor, mixed together and most often deposited in the upper end of an engine! I did lots of work and testing in this area looking for the best additive remedy to deal with short cycle, cold weather driving! This is or was a major problem in the northeast US; as well as areas with similar weather characteristics! Since you really don’t know the condition of the motor, one additional step you could take to try and reduce the cost and labor duration would be this! 
    For the initial startup get a bottle of Amsoil engine & transmission flush. Fill the engine with a good oil & new filter! Start the engine and let it idle only! When it is at operating temperature, shut it down. Add the Amsoil to the oil and restart! Let it idle for 15 minutes and vary the rpms between idle and 1500! Then shut it down! Let it sit 15 minutes! Then restart run it 10 more minutes, shut it down and drain it! Then do your oil & filter change! Run it 100 miles and do another oil change, note how dirty the oil is for just a 100 miles! Then follow that up with two consecutive 1000 mile oil changes and see what the oil looks like on the last oil drain vs the first oil drain that was done at the 100 mile mark!

    5F2C9E92-FFAA-4B8A-AA23-5370C5FFAD40.jpeg

    • Like 1
  6. 41 minutes ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

    If the cylinder heads look like that...Chances are the lifter gallery/oil galleys are going to be just as bad... The screen on the oil pump might be half ass plugged too...Short of disassembling the engine and hot tanking it...I don't know...Perhaps Last Indian would know of some kind engine flush Chemical/procedure that would work without having to take everything apart...that could be put in the crankcase and using an oiling tool to turn the oil pump without actually running the engine.....

    Wish I could be of more help......

    I agree 100% Two Lane!! But unless Kiwi wants to pull the motor and tear it down to the short block he has limited options! Most of the motor flush’s don’t have enough contact time with that type of sludge to do much to it! Plus most motor flush’s if run long enough to have any impact on that type of sludge, there is always a concern about small pieces breaking loose and blocking small orifice, like valve lifters! What I described above will tend to have the best results! Clean as much as you can, than use the TBN of a high quality oil to literally clean the inside of the motor over time! But in this process you have to keep the oil fresh, I.E. oil & filter change every 1000 miles max till you see the motor is clean, I.E. pull a valve cover! Another way you will know this is happening, pay attention as to the length of time it takes for the oil to get dirty! When you first start the oil will get dirty almost immediately, but as time goes on this occurrence will increase!

  7. 8 minutes ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

    I have a issue and I hope you guys can give me some ideas on how to sort this mess !!

    i removed the rocker covers to find 57 years worth of crud !! 

    So I have got in there with a screw driver and vacuum cleaner and very carefully moved all the sludge and flakes I can 

    who can I clean this up better but without stuffing the motor ?

    i was thinking of using petrol to carefully wash and us a rag to obsorb the wash up ... remembering 

    I have had the sump off and all down there is nice and clean 

    E0AB0ED1-A22B-4E31-AD0F-F817DC64B9AC.jpeg

    DBB7F256-CE9C-4B46-BB47-DE70DF863CB1.jpeg

    D9F8974D-051F-4727-B423-B7433918A98A.jpeg

    That’s what we call dried sludge/mayonnaise! Yeah that’s ugly! This will take some, unfortunately, tedious work! Obviously clean the valve covers off the car, because you can clean those beautiful! Do this with either stoddard solvent or kerosene! The heads will be much harder, unless you want to pull them?! If you pull them you would be able to complete disassemble them! Clean them really well, lap the valves, replace valve seals and clean passages you can’t get to without removal! Again you would use stoddard or kerosene! 
    You are indicating that the oil pan is off, right? So if you don’t want to take off the heads I would suggest the following. Plug all the drain down holes as best you can. Again take stoddard or kerosene and a brush and clean everything you can, valve springs, rockers, inside head area, etc! This will get messy so protect all the surrounding area because you are going to create splatter! As you clean it, yes you will have to sop up the liquid mess! Once you get the inside area of the head somewhat clean; stop! Now wipe all you can dry, especially the gasket sealing surface! Put the motor back together when you are ready! When you are ready to fire the motor use a 10w30 or 40. Run the motor for about an hour after it gets warmed up! Shut it down drain the sump as soon as you can! Change the filter once it’s cool enough to do so! Refill with new oil! Run this oil about 50 miles, than drain the oil again while it’s hot! Change the filter refill with new oil! Now I would use 10w40 or 20w40 oil! From this point on I would change the oil every 1000 miles! When you get 5000 or so miles on the motor since this time frame pull a valve cover and see how the head condition has changed! So take a before picture so you have something to compare the later timeframe to!
     

    • Like 1
  8. On 2/5/2021 at 10:13 AM, PumbaaToots said:

    Hey everyone, first post here. So I found this Pontiac years ago in a parts yard and thought it was so cool I had to take a picture. From what research I have done, I'm thinking it is a '69 Parisienne, but I'm not 100% positive on it. Anyone have an opinion?  Unfortunately I only have the one picture. 

    20191111_152626.jpg

    20191111_152626.heic 2.47 MB · 6 downloads

    Yea! JustA saw this! If you’re speaking of the blue car in the picture? That’s not a Pontiac! That a Chrysler! Pontiac never built anything that had a rear quarter rear door configuration that had that kind of sharp body line turn down! Only Lincoln, Ford & Chrysler. And of the three I only remember Chrysler having an individual stand alone turn signal side marker that high up in the front fender!

    • Like 2
  9. 3 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

    Back in the day..When these cars were new...There were alot of warranty claims for the oil leaking at the front and rear (mostly at the rear) of the intake manifolds...It is a very common problem...With these engines to the point that it was just a matter time before they all started leaking..They were only used for five years 92..96 Corvette...93..97 for the F bodies..Although they were used in various full size Buicks...Oldsmobiles..Chevies and certain Cadillacs during that time period.. But without the Aluminum cylinder heads...GM put out A TSB..That said to use the copper sealant  (shown in Frosty's pic) that instead of what had been originally used at the factory.. GM never really worked out the issue or made any design changes throughout the production run to address the issue...I think their reasoning for that was....They were coming out with LS series engines anyway and focused their attention on that..Instead of the soon to be obsolete Gen2 lt1/LT4 engines...personally I think the main design issue is the difference of the expansion rates of the Cast iron block and the Aluminum Intake manifold... GM Rather than machining a groove across the top of the the sealing surfaces of the block with a corresponding groove on the sealing surface on the bottom of the intake manifold...To put a flat O ring type gasket between the two...Just blew it off and moved on to other things....There is really no internal pressure in the valley under the intake..Unless the PVC system is clogged as Frosty pointed out...I will definitely look at that.... and address any issue that May be present...If I ever pull my engine or ever redo another one I will use a ball type end mill... And cut a shallow groove in both the intake and the block and take some of the material and instead of gluing it together at ends to form an O ring..I will just take a piece and lay it flat in the groove and sandwich it between the manifold and the block along with a coating of RTV...(I think that would be  permanent fix..??) But in the meantime I will remove the intake and  just use RTV.. If there is any commercially available RTV that will better cope with the different expansion rates between the dissimilar metals I Will definitely give it try...

    Thanks....

    That’s a good point about the expansion rate! Quite often those are overlooked issues by manufacturers! I have seen that many times in my working career. 
    So that prompted me to look at the MSDS sheets! Interesting enough the difference between the copper, black, red, blue & gray is enough to possibly make a difference in sealing! 

    The red is the softest shore A 20, copper 26, black 30, blue 30 & gray 30-40! The elongation was close to the same for all except the gray, it was much lower! The shear strength was the lowest on the copper and the highest on the gray! 
    So what does that mean? I’m not 100% sure because I don’t know the failure mechanism for sure! But if thermal expansion is part of the equation, which in turn creates the possibility of vibration? Than the red or the gray jump to the top of my list! Why? Well a softer durometer material with a ok elongation number might survive those demands! Still a harder durometer with a better shear strength might be tough enough to withstand both demands. 
    But if it were me I would put my money on the red RTV!

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  10. 3 hours ago, Frosty said:

    I don't disagree with you Last Indian. My first inclination would be to use a high RTV without the copper too. However, if GM spec'd an RTV with copper originally for these engines, I'm sure they had a reason. However, that reason alludes me.

    Frosty, I understand that, and this is just my opinion, but I don’t believe GM says to use the copper! But if they do, I can only say they also say to use Dex-cool! And that crap is the worst s"?!t on the market! You might as well pour acid in your engine! While I never have built any of the LT1’s I have had a lot of interaction with the guys who were building them for our engine lab! They always used the red RTV! These engines ran hundreds of hours under some of the severest conditions! 
    The one thing I remember they would tell me they always did was to put a blob of rtv in each corner at the cylinder head! Then run a bead on the rail! Also it was imperative that both the manifold & rail of the block be very very clean! I.E. all RTV removed, cleaned with brown scotchbrite & then wiped with an aggressive solvent like a carb cleaner!

    below the first one is using the red RTV! The bottom pic is using a white, which I’m not familiar with, but it’s off of a Hot Rod build article! 

    C03C311E-6040-406B-8380-26474ABAC886.jpeg

    C2023466-4B07-4303-B77F-05CA55F47A0D.jpeg

    • Like 2
  11. 17 hours ago, Frosty said:

    Two Lane, another RTV consideration would be to use Permatex Ultra Copper High Temp Silicone RTV. If for some reason, copper is needed as a barrier between the two dissimilar metals of the iron block and aluminum intake, this is another alternative.

    image.thumb.png.b64b68075855efab232c10c5b11e471b.png

    I've also heard of guys having sludge build up in the PCV system when they develop this leak on the LT1/LT4 engine. So if you remove the manifold, take the time to check out the entire PVC system for build up. If the PCV system has failed, you might have too much internal pressure blowing out the place of least resistance, the silicone seal.

    I believe this is the product Two Lane is using! And if you look at the picture you posted it is clearly listed as exhaust and 700 degrees F! Thus why I’m saying, I don’t really believe that is the right product for the application! That type of sealant usually does not have the proper composition for flexibility, ductility, shear strength or adhesion! It is usually has a composition more so for expansion, contraction. And while I know they say it’s oil resistant, I believe that is more from a exhaust oil perspective, not an engine oil bathing perspective! Otherwise why would you make any of the other products? You would JustA need one! Right?

    • Like 1
  12. 1 hour ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

    Last indian..

    Thanks for the response...

    The Gen2 LT 1 engine block and intake manifold are of a different design from the old school small blocks and instead of having the traditional cork/neoprene gaskets across the front/rear of the block...Between the cylinder heads...The Gen2  block and the bottom of the intake manifold are machined flat and fit tightly together with zero clearance between them and they are sealed with a copper type Rtv sealant...The only gaskets are the ones that seal the cylinder head intake ports and the manifold...Unlike the traditional small block No water flows thru the intake manifold..Instead there is a pipe that connects the Cylinder heads together for the coolant flow on the rear of the engine...(The engine has a reverse flow cooling system) with the water pump driven off the camshaft...

    So I guess what I'm asking is..Is there maybe some kind of a nuclear space age super sealant RTV that will last for millions of heat cycles...and cope with the different expansion/contraction rates of the cast iron block and the Aluminum intake manifold....(Which is the point where the reoccuring leaks are happening)   That is commercially available...?? 

    I must admit I have not built any of the Gen2 LT1 motors! That said, and I know it’s easy for me to say since I would have no vested interest, but I would still try one of the following two methods!

    First of all the copper rtv to me makes no sense! This is typically used for high temps like exhaust manifolds, cats, etc! I don’t know why they would want you to use that?

    Ok, so you clearly have to make the call here because you have the most experience with doing the work and seeing the failure! First, the easiest way is to use Permatex Ultra synthetic it comes in a purple tube! It is for oil applications! The other is their Ultra black, also for oil applications! Both have temperature ratings of -65 to 500F. Where as the copper is rated for 700F, but if your intake sees 700F you have other problems to worry about! 
    Part of the failure may be due to the 700F rating! To get to that temperature material must be incorporated into the chemical composition that to some degree actually compromise the integrity of the structure with respect to oil exposer!
    If you are going to pull and clean the manifold & the area of the block & heads that needs resealed, I would suggest this! Clean everything, reinstall the intake to head gaskets? Place the intake in place with no rtv, tighten the bolts just enough to make snug contact, no torque! Take feeler gages and measure the gap at manifold and block sealing surface areas! If it is more than .010 get back to me and let me know! If that is the case you might try something else I have in mind!

     

    EFC039A5-54E3-4BD9-81E5-B9853C734699.jpeg

  13. 2 hours ago, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

    My 1997 LT1 Firebird has developed an oil leak again...From the rear of the intake manifold..I've fixed it correctly with great attention to detail twice already ...Once in 2005 or 06...Then again in 2014..Now it has started seeping again...This is common problem with these engines...So I'm going to pull the intake (pain in the ass) again... Was wanting to know If anyone out there has come up with a permanent fix for this issue...?? Or am I just destined to have to redo it every few years...??

    Any input or suggestions would be appreciated....

    Thanks..TLBT

    Two Lane, I don’t know what your approach has been to try and resolve this, but my thought would be this! Also I don’t know what end gaskets you are using,I.E. cork, neoprene or just rtv! You might try the following. I would use cork end gaskets with the red rtv! Put a thin layer of the red rtv on the block, than while still wet place the cork gasket into the rtv, but don’t press it in to the rtv hard, and let it cure over night! Next day put another thin layer on the top of the cork gasket! Set the intake manifold in place while wet, install the bolts to align the manifold properly, but don’t bolt it down, just tighten them till they engage the manifold surface! Again let it cure over night, than torque down the next day! 

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
    • Confused 1
  14. 10 hours ago, Wrongway said:

    Ok thank you. I will switch to the 10w40. I am running a mechanical oil, volt and coolant temp gauge set from autometer. I've always like the mechanical, looks and function. Is Rotella 10w40 ok for the break in also?

    Which Rotella, as there are several different series of which all have different additive packages! 
    In general Rotella is a good oil to run in your car though! Most all of the T series use ZDDP, with the exception of T6, and since your “63” doesn’t use a cat they are all excellent oils! Then the only difference is conventional, synthetic or synthetic blend! I run Rotella T4 10w30 in the Indian even though I run a cat! I run the 10w30 because the 3800 is still for the most part an old skool motor!

    • Like 2
Tired of these Ads? Purchase Enhanced Membership today to remove them!
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.