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1Batimobil's 1967 Catalina

2021 February
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Got my rebuilt power brake booster unit back today with a warning on it! and this is a trap for anyone doing a rebuild with a new master cylinder too!

 The rebuilder of my power brake booster unit tagged the unit to warn against using a master cylinder with the eyelet cur-clip, as it cuts into the front seal on the booster unit.

 here you can see, my new master cylinder has that exact clip, and you can see my old unit doesnt.... good little trap   :mod:

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Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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Don’t tell Smokey Yunick that! Those cars dominated NASCAR in the day mate!

New Teflon brake hoses thanks to my brake shop mate, who is also making me a Teflon fuel line with a-n fittings from the pump up to the  carter  these babys will not expand when those big brake dr

Molly, my Golden Retriever, is a bed pig (on my bed of course). She's suppose to be my kid's dog, but you know how children's promises go. She's 9, he's 20.

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That's a good catch on your rebuilder's part. You would think there would be a better design to prevent damaging the seal.

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On 2/9/2021 at 3:37 PM, TWO LANE BLACK TOP said:

The Turbohydramatic 400 transmission is a very economically viable upgrade from the Super turbine 300 (Jetaway) trans and can be done easily without major modifications or specialty parts.....The TH-200-R4 is also another good upgrade if you want overdrive for cruising down the highway looking cool with the top down...

Hi Two Lane, I’m looking at other transmissions. It seems none of them have starter mounts on them. Do you know how to get around this? Does the 389 have starter mounting holes? Thanks, Del

On 2/14/2021 at 2:50 AM, 64 kiwi boni said:

And way better than the right angles leads that where on there, they where wrong as they clashed with the accelerator linkages 

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I have rebuilt the 2 earth straps that go from the back of each head , cleaned them up , recrimped them and soldered them 

and tested there resistance too 

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I noticed there are a few of theses installed. One of mine is broken. Are they all necessary? 

 

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45 minutes ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

Hi Two Lane, I’m looking at other transmissions. It seems none of them have starter mounts on them. Do you know how to get around this? Does the 389 have starter mounting holes? Thanks, Del

I noticed there are a few of theses installed. One of mine is broken. Are they all necessary? 

 

64 motors N up have the starter on the block.  Before that your stuck with power glide. 

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Thanks for the info. One local trans guy said there is a conversion kit for 700.00 to mount to transmission. He is looking into it. Not looking for major delays and headaches so may just rebuild what I have. The other option is to get a transmission engine combo from monster and deal with just motor mount adapter.

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4 hours ago, Bonneville convertable64 said:

I noticed there are a few of theses installed. One of mine is broken. Are they all necessary? 

i think Pontiac did this for a reason, maybe to cover all the bases if one did break there is a back up to earth the body, I note that my main earth strap went straight to the motor, but some one had also put a heavy cable to the inner fender AND the radiator support panel, which i think was over kill🙄and looked one heck of a mess coming off the battery terminal ! 

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16 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

i think Pontiac did this for a reason, maybe to cover all the bases if one did break there is a back up to earth the body, I note that my main earth strap went straight to the motor, but some one had also put a heavy cable to the inner fender AND the radiator support panel, which i think was over kill🙄and looked one heck of a mess coming off the battery terminal ! 

Hi Kiwi-my GP also has multiple earth straps. You'd think that 300kg of cast iron block would be earth enough, but I suppose if it & the trans are rubber mounted (which they are) then perhaps the additional straps take care of block to chassis earthing. Even so, one decent sized strap should have sufficed OR earth the battery direct to the chassis.

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On 2/19/2021 at 12:30 AM, Fitzy said:

Hi Kiwi-my GP also has multiple earth straps. You'd think that 300kg of cast iron block would be earth enough, but I suppose if it & the trans are rubber mounted (which they are) then perhaps the additional straps take care of block to chassis earthing. Even so, one decent sized strap should have sufficed OR earth the battery direct to the chassis.

Its a crack up Fitzy, way over earthed system. the big sucker is the starter motor, so best call is a good 10mm/3/8th earth cable crimped AND soldered,for the  motor,( sorry i am old skool) then after that with a stock Ponti-pretty girl, it would be the heater fan and head lights. they would be your next current draw to consider.And i think i will justA, run a direct earth to the head light rely then i will have no issues.

As i am going led head lights too.....

 watch this space... i ordered myself a road runner starter  and it should be here tomorrow!! :drool:

will tell you all about it once i have it in hand,👍:dancingpontiac:

Edited by 64 kiwi boni
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On 2/19/2021 at 12:30 AM, Fitzy said:

Hi Kiwi-my GP also has multiple earth straps. You'd think that 300kg of cast iron block would be earth enough, but I suppose if it & the trans are rubber mounted (which they are) then perhaps the additional straps take care of block to chassis earthing. Even so, one decent sized strap should have sufficed OR earth the battery direct to the chassis.

Hay Fitzy, something to watch out for too is like in 'wrongways" thread, these old cable may LOOK ok but you need to to test them.

maybe its worth is own thread about testing and ohms testing your power and earth cables ??? 

 whatA you guys think ? ....( doesn't seam we have an auto sparky on our forum ! :()

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I got a new tester/power probe for Christmas. I will play with it come spring.

Still I hate troubleshooting electrical under the hood or the dash. Justa a pain to get to in the first place.

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8 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:
17 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

Its a crack up Fitzy, way over earthed system. the big sucker is the starter motor, so best call is a good 10mm/3/8th earth cable crimped AND soldered,for the  motor,( sorry i am old skool) then after that with a stock Ponti-pretty girl, it would be the heater fan and head lights. they would be your next current draw to consider.And i think i will justA, run a direct earth to the head light rely then i will have no issues.

As i am going led head lights too.....

 watch this space... i ordered myself a road runner starter  and it should be here tomorrow!! :drool:

will tell you all about it once i have it in hand,👍:dancingpontiac:

 

That's a good point re condition of earth straps-I shall keep it in mind.

I have never heard of a Road Runner starter, but you seem happy with your previous purchase. Someone advised me to be wary of hi torque starters because they can strip ring gear teeth due to their immense torque. If my ring gear teeth are anything like my own teeth, I'll be steering clear.

Now, as an aside: I have just come home from work and this was playing on my mind.

Here are the results of my own compression test. Mine seem higher than yours, so perhaps your Bonnie's 389 is a different spec to the one in my GP. The 65 GP 389 is a 4 barrel, twin exhaust 10.25 motor with 325 hp thru the TH400. Your Bonnie may be different.

I have taken a pic of engine specs from my 65 Chassis Manual (Faxon Literature if you don't already have one.)

20210224_083647.jpg

20210224_083626.jpg

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fitzy. here is what i did with my earth straps

2973A617-9A24-4A47-B015-B61DEFAC8A26.jpeg

1 hour ago, Andy H said:

I like to use a good quality voltmeter for all electrical troubleshooting, learn how to do a voltage drop test both on the ground and the positive side, and check with a load, running the starter for those cables or all the accessories on for the alternator.

If ever in doubt make a new cable or replace, i also like the soft fine stranded welding cable, crimped and soldered also use shrink tubing with glue in it to seal the crimp/end with. i work on 24v systems with 500A alternator all the time and grounds are critical.

Remember that your body has rubber bushings between frame and body, clean the paint off the spot where you attach your ground cable and after you tighten it you can paint over it.

If you don't have a proper ground voltage will find a way maybe through your throttle cable or something else and potentially fry it.

 

Andy, i am super keen on a thread about this , but truly mate i dont know that much about load testing,,,, and thats the big thing with current,,, in my job i test ohms on coils all day every day , but current load on a 12 volt system is its own field.

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1 hour ago, Andy H said:

Here is two videos i found about testing the starter and the alternator that i thought made sense.

The same goes for any circuit and for example the heater fan go through a lot of components before it gets it power, like the fuse box, bulkhead connector fan switch maybe the ignition switch or a relay so a wiring diagram is good, its like a road map, where is it coming from and where is it going and if you find a problem you have to work your way backwards to the battery,  test on both side of the fuse box or ignition switch or bulkhead connector, is the drop OK going in but not out,

Often guys a work come and ask me about electrical problems and my answer is very often, voltmeter and schematic, study the circuit and understand how it works and measure.

17 hours ago, JUSTA6 said:
On 2/23/2021 at 3:09 PM, 64 kiwi boni said:

Its a crack up Fitzy, way over earthed system. the big sucker is the starter motor, so best call is a good 10mm/3/8th earth cable crimped AND soldered,for the  motor,( sorry i am old skool) then after that with a stock Ponti-pretty girl, it would be the heater fan and head lights. they would be your next current draw to consider.And i think i will justA, run a direct earth to the head light rely then i will have no issues.

As i am going led head lights too.....

 watch this space... i ordered myself a road runner starter  and it should be here tomorrow!! :drool:

will tell you all about it once i have it in hand,👍:dancingpontiac:

 

That's a good point re condition of earth straps-I shall keep it in mind.

I have never heard of a Road Runner starter, but you seem happy with your previous purchase. Someone advised me to be wary of hi torque starters because they can strip ring gear teeth due to their immense torque. If my ring gear teeth are anything like my own teeth, I'll be steering clear.

Now, as an aside: I have just come home from work and this was playing on my mind.

Here are the results of my own compression test. Mine seem higher than yours, so perhaps your Bonnie's 389 is a different spec to the one in my GP. The 65 GP 389 is a 4 barrel, twin exhaust 10.25 motor with 325 hp thru the TH400. Your Bonnie may be different.

I have taken a pic of engine specs from my 65 Chassis Manual (Faxon Literature if you don't already have one.)

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Voltage drop is just one test, but there are so many test you can run the real question is which test for what problem! The voltage drop you show in the video for starting for example really is inconsequential in the big picture of starting. More relevant battery cranking voltage drop! Typical battery cranking voltage drop on starting with a good battery will be from 12.6, for a well charged battery, down to 10. 2 to 10.4 volts. Anything lower than that means there are issues with the system, either on the plus side or the negative side. Now when you get into the less power consuming components like gages, heater, lights, etc.. Those need checked differently, but again newer cars are a whole different animal in what you check and how! For example the Indian (2000 Grand Prix) has five 12 volt supply wires to the ignition switch! But these 12 volt wires that supply the switch once inside the switch is divided into 20 small finger contact tumblers that in turn distributes that power to smaller wires that supply 12 volts to things like the heater, radio, wipers, gages, etc! If you mistakenly leave an accessory on like the radio, heater, etc. this, through repeated occurrences causes the finger contacts to burn, like a set of points! When this happens you can go from 12 volts to 1 volt! So a voltage drop at a component that doesn’t work or doesn’t work properly does little good!

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3 hours ago, Last Indian said:

Voltage drop is just one test, but there are so many test you can run the real question is which test for what problem! The voltage drop you show in the video for starting for example really is inconsequential in the big picture of starting. More relevant battery cranking voltage drop! Typical battery cranking voltage drop on starting with a good battery will be from 12.6, for a well charged battery, down to 10. 2 to 10.4 volts. Anything lower than that means there are issues with the system, either on the plus side or the negative side. Now when you get into the less power consuming components like gages, heater, lights, etc.. Those need checked differently, but again newer cars are a whole different animal in what you check and how! For example the Indian (2000 Grand Prix) has five 12 volt supply wires to the ignition switch! But these 12 volt wires that supply the switch once inside the switch is divided into 20 small finger contact tumblers that in turn distributes that power to smaller wires that supply 12 volts to things like the heater, radio, wipers, gages, etc! If you mistakenly leave an accessory on like the radio, heater, etc. this, through repeated occurrences causes the finger contacts to burn, like a set of points! When this happens you can go from 12 volts to 1 volt! So a voltage drop at a component that doesn’t work or doesn’t work properly does little good!

Thank you Last Indian, this is great stuff. when i get time i will start a thread, because i am sure there are lots of Pontiac lovers that are really wanting to understand their electrical system, when it shits itself. ( justA bit under the hammer at the moment, wifes trying her best to look after her parents, so shes in another town 3 days a week, and my work load is through the roof... wait till you guys come out of this covid bs, everyone will want to renovate, buy shit, go places and basically blow shit loads of money on things they think is important to them.) 

where i am at is, i have a 57 year old electrical system that you really cant expect is no way near mint! and as i go through my rebuild, i justA want everything i touch to be reliable for many years to come, :cheers: 

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2 hours ago, 64 kiwi boni said:

( justA bit under the hammer at the moment, wifes trying her best to look after her parents, so shes in another town 3 days a week, and my work load is through the roof... wait till you guys come out of this covid bs, everyone will want to renovate, buy shit, go places and basically blow shit loads of money on things they think is important to them.)  

See next entry, my mistake.

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Too stupid to use computer.
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